My name is Ian…

DavidW · January 17, 2024, 07:19:14 AM

Quote from: Brian on January 17, 2024, 05:59:39 AMBy the way, does this include words in a language you don't understand? I almost never enjoy listening to music with English words (even pop), but if someone is singing in French or Italian, suddenly I can look past the meaning and just listen to it as abstract music...

It sounds like you would join Premont in "watching" an opera with eyes closed!

DavidW · January 17, 2024, 07:21:01 AM

Quote from: Ian on January 17, 2024, 06:37:46 AMWhen I hear "Behold the sea" I just cringe.

I sing that out loud to my pet dog when listening to the Sea Symphony. behold the sea... ITSELF!!!!!

Brian · January 17, 2024, 07:23:25 AM

Quote from: Ian on January 17, 2024, 06:37:46 AMWhen I hear "Behold the sea" I just cringe.

Makes perfect sense. I just want to say that now when I hear that line, it makes me think of a music personality who, as a joke, likes to sing "Behold, it's me!"

Ian · January 17, 2024, 10:36:04 AM

Quote from: DavidW on January 17, 2024, 07:21:01 AMI sing that out loud to my pet dog when listening to the Sea Symphony. behold the sea... ITSELF!!!!!

You should be reported to the RSPCA

Seriously though the music is great by ITSELF and doesn't need that ... noise. I'm just glad he didn't feel the need to add such things to his 5th, which btw is another of my obsessions but Vaughanwilliamsaholic is a bit of a mouthful and doesn't have the same je ne sais quoi.

DavidW · January 18, 2024, 08:02:18 AM

I do like how the Sea Symphony is always the bridge too far for British Neoromantic fans!

I also like singing along to Handel's Messiah.

LKB · January 18, 2024, 09:31:47 AM

Firstly: Greetings Ian, and welcome.

Fyi, my favorite The Planets remains Previn's 1974 effort with the LSO on EMI/Warner, with Boult's 1968 EMI version in second place.

Secondly: As to RVW's Symphony No. 1, l must say it is near and dear to me, having performed the work back in 1985 as a chorister. My fascination with Leaves of Grass probably factors into my receptivity to the work as well. I hope you'll come to find enjoyment with it at some point.

Ian · January 19, 2024, 12:39:18 PM

Quote from: LKB on January 18, 2024, 09:31:47 AMFirstly: Greetings Ian, and welcome.

Fyi, my favorite The Planets remains Previn's 1974 effort with the LSO on EMI/Warner, with Boult's 1968 EMI version in second place.

Secondly: As to RVW's Symphony No. 1, l must say it is near and dear to me, having performed the work back in 1985 as a chorister. My fascination with Leaves of Grass probably factors into my receptivity to the work as well. I hope you'll come to find enjoyment with it at some point.

Thank you. I just confess I haven't heard either of those performances. I have the Boult 1978 but with all due respect to Sir Adrian, it's nothing to write home about. Thanks for the suggestions though, I will seek them out and give them a listen.
For vocal music, it's not just RVW's 1st. I find that often when there are sung words and instruments, the vocalists seem to want to take over the whole soundscape. But never say never

Ian · January 19, 2024, 12:44:06 PM

Quote from: Mapman on January 16, 2024, 01:36:35 PMWelcome!

A member here (who has not been active recently) shares your enthusiasm for Holst's Planets, and created a website where he attempted to rank every recording. https://petersplanets.wordpress.com/

I used to, like you, not like music with words. However starting a few years ago I have begun to appreciate it.

Anyway, welcome to the forum!

Thank you.
Yes I know Peter's Planets and have spent many hours reading his insightful and humorous reviews. I have interacted with Peter a few times. We don't share the same opinions but what a dreadful place it would be if we all had the same taste and opinions. He likes the Dutoit performance... although it's superbly recorded I find the performance rather sterile and passionless.

LKB · January 19, 2024, 05:49:08 PM

Quote from: Ian on January 19, 2024, 12:39:18 PMThank you. I just confess I haven't heard either of those performances. I have the Boult 1978 but with all due respect to Sir Adrian, it's nothing to write home about. Thanks for the suggestions though, I will seek them out and give them a listen.
For vocal music, it's not just RVW's 1st. I find that often when there are sung words and instruments, the vocalists seem to want to take over the whole soundscape. But never say never

That's a good stance to take. There was a time, some forty years ago, when I found Shostakovich impossible to listen to despite having performed his First Symphony. But that all changed after Decca released Haitink's recording of Symphony no. 5 with the RCO... I instantly went from 0 to 100% interest, and very quickly found myself memorizing several of his symphonies.

I'm linking two of my favorite vocal performances for your consideration, because I think you may find them more accessible than what you've encountered thus far ( the instrumental contributions are not overwhelmed by the singers, with all of the artists are on more-or-less equal footing ).

https://youtu.be/XXbP055Hx2I?si=CTA0cVgIEmnZNl6j

https://youtu.be/yuuI-MMt9lg?si=B-sDNnk5dFskD0cE

I hope you enjoy them.

George · January 20, 2024, 04:53:14 AM

Welcome Ian!

For a few years in high school, I listened exclusively to Pink Floyd. Wish You Were Here and The Final Cut remain personal favorites of mine.

Like you, I enjoy grunge a lot. I always loved Pearl Jam and Nirvana. Alice in Chains and Soundgarden took a bit longer to click, though. I listened to Superunknown and Dirt a lot during the pandemic. Such a shame about Chris.

And I have a few Mazzy Star CDs, when the mood is right, their music is incredibly soothing.

DavidW · January 20, 2024, 04:59:59 AM

Quote from: Ian on January 19, 2024, 12:44:06 PMThank you.
Yes I know Peter's Planets and have spent many hours reading his insightful and humorous reviews. I have interacted with Peter a few times. We don't share the same opinions but what a dreadful place it would be if we all had the same taste and opinions. He likes the Dutoit performance... although it's superbly recorded I find the performance rather sterile and passionless.

Yeah that list is awful. He found the most dull as dishwater recordings and put them on the top and buried the actual exciting ones. He strikes as the type of person that would think that having a cup of chamomile and reading the Pilgrim's Progress would be almost too much excitement for one day!

DavidW · January 20, 2024, 05:02:13 AM

Quote from: George on January 20, 2024, 04:53:14 AMWelcome Ian!

For a few years in high school, I listened exclusively to Pink Floyd. Wish You Were Here and The Final Cut remain personal favorites of mine.

Animals for me!

Ian · January 20, 2024, 05:21:14 AM

Obscured by Clouds

Ian · January 20, 2024, 05:41:11 AM

Quote from: DavidW on January 20, 2024, 04:59:59 AMYeah that list is awful. He found the most dull as dishwater recordings and put them on the top and buried the actual exciting ones.

mmmm, well yes. I think it's a good resource which I found humorous but indeed I don't agree with the ranking. I mean he put Steinberg at 48. Fourty-Eight!!!! It's the best I've heard so far. To add insult to injury the Hickox at 19 is a strange choice. It's the worst I've heard to date... except maybe for both the Karajan attempts.

I just saw one of my comments on his site:
My review of this one would read: "John Eliot Gardiner, The Bringer of Boredom".

George · January 20, 2024, 05:53:26 AM

Quote from: DavidW on January 20, 2024, 05:02:13 AMAnimals for me!

Did you like the recent remix? I prefer the original.

George · January 20, 2024, 05:55:07 AM

Quote from: Ian on January 20, 2024, 05:21:14 AMObscured by Clouds

Nice one. I came to it only a few years ago.

Cato · January 20, 2024, 07:00:34 AM

Greetings Ian!

Welcome to GMG!

I note your aversion to Classical Music with words, but therefore must ask about your rock-'n'-roll groups. Do you avoid their songs and listen only to their instrumentals?

I have a rule for songs: "The fewer the words, the better."

In my cantata, Exaudi me, the text is very short, with a basic meaning found in prayers, and is used more as a vehicle for the human voice to express emotions, rather than to tell about emotions or a story.

Karl Henninghere at GMG has used some of my poems in his works: these poems tell stories, but I used as few words as possible to convey them. Karl's music adds great commentaries and, so to speak, an unconscious mind to the text.

See:

DavidW · January 20, 2024, 07:20:12 AM

Quote from: Ian on January 20, 2024, 05:41:11 AMI just saw one of my comments on his site:
My review of this one would read: "John Eliot Gardiner, The Bringer of Boredom".

I haven't heard that one, but I wouldn't be surprised if Gardiner insisted upon no vibrato, and then Hurwitz got an ulcer!

DavidW · January 20, 2024, 07:20:48 AM

Quote from: George on January 20, 2024, 05:53:26 AMDid you like the recent remix? I prefer the original.

I actually haven't heard the remix, only the original!

Ian · January 20, 2024, 08:51:33 AM

Quote from: Cato on January 20, 2024, 07:00:34 AMGreetings Ian!

Welcome to GMG!

I note your aversion to Classical Music with words, but therefore must ask about your rock-'n'-roll groups. Do you avoid their songs and listen only to their instrumentals?

I have a rule for songs: "The fewer the words, the better."

In my cantata, Exaudi me, the text is very short, with a basic meaning found in prayers, and is used more as a vehicle for the human voice to express emotions, rather than to tell about emotions or a story.

Hi Leo,

Thank you!

I can listen to "rock" (using them term very loosely here) with or without vocals. But again, I prefer when the human voice is used to complement the instruments, not overpower or be in conflict with them. I was going to write that maybe poetry should remain written or spoken, music should remain music but then I like Jacques Brel, Syd Barrett and Nick Drake who were all poets as well as musicians. And it's not a question of words or vocalisations, Lisa Gerrard vocalising along with Klaus Schulze's electronic music may seem a strange combination but it works very well.

To be perfectly honest I can't even explain to myself why I don't get along with vocals and classic (again using the term very loosely) music. In the pieces you posted for example, and with all due respect to yourself and Karl, the voice and music seem to clash rather than live in harmony. I hear a constant fight between them in my head. I hope that makes sense and it's just my own opinion for what it's worth, I would not presume to make an artistic judgement on your work. I understand what you mean about expressing emotions and therein may be my problem... more often than not I don't perceive these emotions. Having said that, in the second piece I find there is less "conflict" and therefore is, to me, more pleasurable. I think that somewhere along the line something as trivial as the mix or recording quality plays a role.

In contrast, in Philip Glass's Music In Twelve Parts, especially in Part 1, the organs and voices merge perfectly. There is no conflict there.

But, to be clear, I am not averse to the human voice. It can be just beautiful, such as in these pieces or as I mentioned previously in RVW's 7th symphony, Holst's Neptune and even some opera such as Enrico Caruso singing Je Crois Entendre Encore is just magnificent.

Thank you, and others, for sharing your views and experiences on the subject. To learn about music from knowledgeable people and broaden my horizons is why I joined the forum and we are off to a great start!