People obsessed by categories: "Soundtracks are not classical music!!!"

[DaveF]

the "Four Seasons" are the soundtrack of a group of sonnets (each movement has a corresponding sonnet, see: https://baroquemusic.org/vivaldiseasons.html

That would be a reasonable argument if it were known for certain that the concerti were written to illustrate the sonnets.  However, since the words and music were published together, nobody knows which came first - i.e. Vivaldi (if he were also the poet) may have written the sonnets as a description of his own music.

[Roasted Swan]

To paraphrase Alien (great soundtrack btw);

In this thread no-one can hear you scream

[W.A. Mozart]

You missed my point re this particular part of the discussion (to be fair there was quite a lot of ground covered)

Your mental picture of Don Giovanni is not mine. Your mental picture of Vivaldi's Summer is not mine. The music retains its independence because these associations are not fixed.

But your mental image of Gandalf on the bridge of Khazad Dum in Jackson's film is identical to mine. The music is tied to a precise image; it is not fully independent.

Only if we have both watched the film and we both remember the scene where a determined part of the music is used.

I have never watched the film Avalon. I only know the music.

If you ask me how the music of this video is used in the film "The Hours", I can't tell you. I don't remember.

This fact makes the experience subjective. It would be objective only if all people who listen to the music had a perfect memory of the scene.


In regards to the difference between the music of a film and the music of an opera, the difference is not in the music in itself. The difference you noted is between cinema and theatre.

In the case of the theatre, the stage must be recreated for every recital.
In the case of cinema, a film is recorded.


This means that if we had both watched the same version of the Don Giovanni, there would be the same exact picture in our mind, but since we might have watched different versions, the picture might be different.

However, both pictures are about the Don Giovanni who dies, so it's not completely abstract.



Now, even if our experience in relation with the music, the film and so on... is subjective, it's still correct to say that the the music is objectively associated with a precise scene, so at the end I can agree that to make a distinction between "abstract music" and "non-abstract music" makes sense.


So, we have...

Abstract jazz (for example "Take five") Vs non-abstract jazz (the score of the film "The Faboulous Baker Boys")

Abastract pop (for example "Your song") Vs non-abstract pop (for example the score of "Top Gun")

Abstract rap (for example "Without me") Vs non-abstract rap (for example "Lose yourself", written for the film 8mile)


....


And, finally, after a long list...


Abstract classical music (For example "Philip Glass - Metamorphosis") and non-abstract classical music (for example the score of the film "The Hours", composed by Philip Glass).



So, in conclusion, if this is what you want to say, I can agree with you.

Opera might be more abstract than a film score, but I wouldn't put it in the the category of abstract music. The music is thought to be consumed with a stage.


Finally, we should also note that non-abstract music can become abstract music if to play a piece originally thought to be consumed in a non-abstract way outside of the original context becomes the normal practice.

This happened with the song "Lose Yourself" (Eminem sings it in all concerts) and with parts of the score of "Top Gun", but the relevant story for this discussion is that some classical scores are no more abstract music. Do you remember the data about John Williams, which shows that he is the most performed contemporary composer?
Well, the classical soundtracks of John Williams are no more abstract music: like the music of Top Gun, the music of John Williams has been tranformed succesfully into concert music.


Perhaps what the snobs (like the guy of the blog of The Guardian) don't like is that we are converting classical soundtracks into abstract classical music. Why? Because we like the music and we think that it's powerful even outside the films.


Do we agree with what I wrote, or is there anything you don't like in my text?

[W.A. Mozart]

The poll of Reddit is closed now, so you can see the final results.

Question: "Do you like soundtracks of films that you don't like or you have never watched?"

- 32 votes: Yes, I like soundtracks of films that I don't like.
- 14 votes: Yes, I like soundtracks of films that I have never watched.
- 42 votes: Yes, both previous options.
- 3 votes: No, I only like soundtracks of films that I like.
- 4 votes: I don't want to vote. Show me the results.

= 95 votes (total)



Link to the poll: https://www.reddit.com/r/soundtracks/comments/1by8z1g/do_you_like_soundtracks_of_films_that_you_dont/

3 / (95 - 4) = 3.3%

Only 3.3% of the voters declare that they only like the music of films that they have wached and that they like.

This demonstrates that it's not true that people like the music of soundtracks only because they like the films.

In the comments under the poll: "The vast majority of my soundtrack collection is for films I haven't seen."