Pronunciation?

[Luke]

At risk of offending some of our friends, the British take great pride in mispronouncing all foreign words. No matter how cultured a Londoner may be, his/her nation has put great effort into inventing new, strange pronunciations for every word with a French origin. 

It's not just us Brits mind you...

[Brian]

It's not just us Brits mind you...

Oh, very true, but you are my sacrificial lamb to prove my point 

[Luke]

Sackray Bluh!

[aukhawk]

. No matter how cultured a Londoner may be, his/her nation has put great effort into inventing new, strange pronunciations for every word with a French origin. 

We gave the French the sandwich.  I will always be proud of that

[(poco) Sforzando]

At risk of offending some of our friends, the British take great pride in mispronouncing all foreign words. No matter how cultured a Londoner may be, his/her nation has put great effort into inventing new, strange pronunciations for every word with a French origin. 

Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?
Norwegians learn Norwegian,
the Greeks are taught their Greek.
In France every Frenchman knows his language from "A" to "Zed"

The French never care what they do, actually, as long as they pronounce it properly.
[followed by a riff on the solo bassoon]

[(poco) Sforzando]

It's not just us Brits mind you...

Let's not forget the Bizet opera which is invariably mispronounced CAR-men.

[Brian]

We gave the French the sandwich.  I will always be proud of that

You mean le sahndWEECH!

[Florestan]

At risk of offending some of our friends, the British take great pride in mispronouncing all foreign words. No matter how cultured a Londoner may be, his/her nation has put great effort into inventing new, strange pronunciations for every word with a French origin. 

I'm well aware of that but this is precisely my point: education and culture are not exclusively British/American. iF one speaks about Don Quixote or Victor Hugo, then at least they should make the effort (which is not even so great an effort) to learn the correct pronunciation of their names. I don't believe that the fact that Romanian has a phonetical ortography could justify my pronouncing William Shakespeare or Byron Janis exactly as written, taking the letters at their Romanian phonetical value.

[Papy Oli]

At risk of offending some of our friends, the British take great pride in mispronouncing all foreign words. No matter how cultured a Londoner may be, his/her nation has put great effort into inventing new, strange pronunciations for every word with a French origin. 

Le coup de grace is that genoise connoisseur in my cul-de-sac.....

[Luke]

Let's not forget the Bizet opera which is invariably mispronounced CAR-men.

Who the blazes is this Bizzett fellow, old chap? Doesn't quite sound like one of us if you know what I mean. What a rum do!

[Papy Oli]

(for balance, some of us have problems with the hierarchy of mischievous squirrels in Marylebone    )

[Todd]

I'm well aware of that but this is precisely my point: education and culture are not exclusively British/American. iF one speaks about Don Quixote or Victor Hugo, then at least they should make the effort (which is not even so great an effort) to learn the correct pronunciation of their names. I don't believe that the fact that Romanian has a phonetical ortography could justify my pronouncing William Shakespeare or Byron Janis exactly as written, taking the letters at their Romanian phonetical value.

I wonder how the very learned folks on GMG might pronounce ब्राह्मस्फुटसिद्धान्त?

As per usual, GMG remains blandly Eurocentric.

[Florestan]

I wonder how the very learned folks on GMG might pronounce ब्राह्मस्फुटसिद्धान्त?

It took me 5 seconds (to quote you literally) to learn that ब्राह्मस्फुटसिद्धान्त transliterates in the Roman alphabet as Brahmasphutasiddhanta, and then to learn that Brahmasphutasiddhanta is pronounced thus:

https://www.howtopronounce.com/hindi/brahmasphutasiddhanta

 

[Jo498]

To be fair, CarMEN is a Frenchified incorrect stress of the Spanish name, so the correction has some justification.

Of course, ignorance (or often worse, indifference) wrt the pronunciation of foreign words is either lack of education or (and that might be why it's more frequent from some speakers than others) latent cultural imperialism. Or maybe simply personal arrogance.

But I also think that nitpicking pronunciations, especially if the person either made a reasonable effort, or uses a anglicized/germanized etc. form because it's common in their environment can be exaggerated and come across as snobbish in trivial details.

[Florestan]

To be fair, CarMEN is a Frenchified incorrect stress of the Spanish name, so the correction has some justification.

Exactly. 

[Todd]

It took me 5 seconds (to quote you literally) to learn that ब्राह्मस्फुटसिद्धान्त transliterates in the Roman alphabet as Brahmasphutasiddhanta, and then to learn that Brahmasphutasiddhanta is pronounced thus:

https://www.howtopronounce.com/hindi/brahmasphutasiddhanta

Assuming the internet has provided the proper pronunciation, you did not know the word or how to pronounce it before using Google, which means you are uneducated and uncultured. 

Now, without using the internet, how do you suppose Coppell - as in Coppell, TX - is pronounced?  Spell it out phonetically.  (Brian must resist the urge to jump in.)  After that, take a stab at pronouncing Champoeg. 

Florestan, I suspect your English pronunciation sucks.  I mean American English, of course, the one that matters. 

[Jo498]

I wonder how the very learned folks on GMG might pronounce ब्राह्मस्फुटसिद्धान्त?

As per usual, GMG remains blandly Eurocentric.

As it should. Western culture that has become world culture is centered in Europe. It's part of being an educated person to pronounce "Victor Hugo"recognizably but not Sanskrit, Swahili or Chinese names.
(Also the person criticized was an American who should know and be able to do it without tongue twisting, not someone from e.g. China who might not)
Maybe it will be different in another 100 years but the Romans spoke Greek for longer than that after Athens had lost much of its relevance.

[Todd]

As it should. Western culture that has become world culture is centered in Europe.

That is part of the standard Eurocentrism displayed on this forum.  People in non-Western countries do not hold the same views on culture or what constitutes "world culture" - there is no such thing, actually.  My current employer happens to be owned by an Indian, with a lot of high-ranking Indian employees.  It's quite striking how little they concern themselves with Eurocentric conceptions of the world. 

[Florestan]

Assuming the internet has provided the proper pronunciation, you did not know the word or how to pronounce it before using Google, which means you are uneducated and uncultured.

Yeah, right! Compare the relevance, for BBC or Romanian BC announcers, of ब्राह्मस्फुटसिद्धान्त (the written word, that is) with Don Quijote, Victor Hugo and Richard Wagner.

Florestan, I suspect your English pronunciation sucks.  I mean American English, of course, the one that matters.

@Karl Henning has heard me speaking English. I will defer the matter to him.

[Jo498]

Now, without using the internet, how do you suppose Coppell - as in Coppell, TX - is pronounced?  Spell it out phonetically.  (Brian must resist the urge to jump in.)  After that, that a stab at pronouncing Champoeg. 

How is any of these names comparable in cultural relevance to Victor Hugo or Cervantes? Even without the unfair "advantage" of English having no stringent rules for pronunciation, don't you think we could easily pick some small town in Europe with an unpronounceable name?
Nobody not living there is supposed to know how "Coesfeld" or Coppell are pronounced but if someone with a job in culture pronounces that French writer as "you go"...