Pronunciation?

[Todd]

There's one here, too, near Cowlinge in fact. It's pronounced 'Carlton.'

There's one a bit southwest of Portland as well.  It is as confusingly pronounced as the one you cite. 

[hopefullytrusting]

I can tell you this. I've yet to run into someone not from Chicago who can pronounce it correctly. They always place the accents and emphases in the wrong places - even those damn "Northsiders".

As to the thread, I don't pay any attention to critics when it comes to art.

[Todd]

I can tell you this. I've yet to run into someone not from Chicago who can pronounce it correctly. They always place the accents and emphases in the wrong places - even those damn "Northsiders".

As to the thread, I don't pay any attention to critics when it comes to art.

Keeping with two themes, I haven't paid attention to any critics since Roger Ebert died.

[Florestan]

This originated when Florestan assigned some significance to how words are pronounced and falsely attached it to education and culture.

You grossly misrepresent what I said. It was not words in general, but the names of such cultural icons as Don Quixote, Victor Hugo and Richard Wagner. How Coppell, TX is locally pronounced has zero relevance in this context.

[Karl Henning]

You grossly misrepresent what I said ....

That's Huggy Bear all over!

[Florestan]

As someone who is very learned and very cultured, you should have known what was posted.  Since you did not and cannot pronounce it, you have shown yourself to be uneducated and uncultured.

Once again, you grossly misrepresent my opinions. I never pretended to be very learned and very cultured. I freely and unashamedly confess my ignorance of the Hindi language, alphabet and culture.

Second, being educated/cultured does not mean knowing ALL languages and alphabets and being familiar with ALL cultures --- that would mean nobody dead or alive or yet to be born has been, is or will be educated and cultured. But I dare say that correctly pronouncing the names of the cultural icons from one's own cultural area (and you can call it Eurocentrism as much as you like till you're blue in the face, I don't care a fig), especially when one is an announcer for a cultural broadcasting organization, is, or rather should be, part of basic education.

[Todd]

You grossly misrepresent what I said.

Incorrect.  What you wrote:

Pronouncing Quixote or Victor Hugo incorrectly is a mark of lack of education/culture.

This is false on its face.  I cited an important Hindi example which you hurriedly Googled.  You are very uneducated and uncultured when it comes to anything non-western.  That is, your assertion is blandly Eurocentric.  And of course, there are very educated people - more educated than you - who mispronounce the words you revere.  I cannot speak to how cultured they may be.

The fun examples of regional names demonstrate that you cannot even pronounce words regularly pronounced by western speakers, and the purposeful mention of American English, as differentiated from British English or Euro English, further highlights the innate silliness of making hay about pronunciation.  Such a fixation is pseudointellectual claptrap.

(and you can call it Eurocentrism as much as you like till you're blue in the face, I don't care a fig),

That you make a point to mention it clearly demonstrates that your care at least one fig. 

Also, you possess no special knowledge as to what should constitute a "basic education".  It is not at all clear that reading Hugo provides anything meaningful. 

[Florestan]

The implication here is that your pronunciation is spot on.

No.The implication here is that only a native English speaker who has heard me speaking English can judge my pronunciation. And between "it sucks" and "it's spot on" there are lots of shades and nuances.

That being said, I'm done with this (off-)topic. For good.

[Todd]

No.The implication here is that only a native English speaker who has heard me speaking English can judge my pronunciation. And between "it sucks" and "it's spot on" there are lots of shades and nuances.

That being said, I'm done with this (off-)topic. For good.

Classic Florestan indignation and last-wordism.

[Florestan]

ou cannot even pronounce words regularly pronounced by western speakers,

Yeah, right, the name of Coppell, TX is regularly pronounced by Western speakers. Give me a break.

[JBS]

The only thing to be said to all this is

Cholmondeley

[Todd]

Yeah, right, the name of Coppell, TX is regularly pronounced by Western speakers. Give me a break.

It is by people in the region, which number in the millions.  But you knew that.

I thought you were done with this off-topic for good, as you cleverly (?) put it.

[DavidW]

I'm going to split the digression into a diner topic, as the posts come fast and furious I will temporarily lock it, but as soon as I'm done I'll unlock it.  Shouldn't take too long.

[hopefullytrusting]

I know, because of my genetics, that there are certain sounds my mouth simply can't make. I watch a Danish YouTuber, and I simply cannot say her name properly because of this soft undertone in the middle.

Makes me feel a bit silly, but most people are forgiving because they see that I am trying.

[Karl Henning]

I know, because of my genetics, that there are certain sounds my mouth simply can't make. I watch a Danish YouTuber, and I simply cannot say her name properly because of this soft undertone in the middle.

Makes me feel a bit silly, but most people are forgiving because they see that I am trying.

In my curiosity Danish lessons on Duolingo, the extent to which letters don't necessarily have the values one expects is impressing me greatly.

And yes, when I was in Russia, people were most forgiving and gracious about my phonetic shortcomings.

[Atriod]

As someone born in Europe then later lived there again for ~8 years as an adult this discussion does make me smile about Europeans hard ingrained "truth" about Eurocentrism being some universal truth (oh was it ever prevalent and unignorable). Well done to Todd dispel these notions.

[71 dB]

Thank you, 71dB. I was making a joke (yes, I know how to produce the diatritics), but apparently it bombed. However, I now know how to say "refrigerator" in Finnish and how to ask if Matti is going fishing next weekend (presumably to store his catch in the refrigerator before cooking it), so there is a net gain.

"Never stop learning, because those who stop learning stop living."

- Newton Okewoye

[71 dB]

I never claimed otherwise, nevertheless the y in the English word symbol is not the same as the Finnish y.

I of course know very well how y sounds in Finnish, but apparently I don't know how it sounds in the English word symbol! 

Judge for yourself:

Varpu is a master in this kind of things. I am not (obviously).

[AnotherSpin]

I wonder how the very learned folks on GMG might pronounce ब्राह्मस्फुटसिद्धान्त?

As per usual, GMG remains blandly Eurocentric.

Is Brahmagupta's text in Sanskrit? If so, then the question of pronunciation is irrelevant, as is the case with Latin.

[DaveF]

Get that round here in rural Suffolk quite a bit. The village of Cowlinge, anyone?

We help things along in rural Monmouthshire by spelling place-names in multiple different ways, just to add to the fun.  Just down the road from us is a village whose name appears in 3 different versions on signs: Llanvapley, Llanfapley (those at either end of the village) and Llanfable.  (The first of these is the best guide to how it's actually pronounced.)