Author Topic: Coronavirus thread  (Read 351717 times)

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #7320 on: Today at 06:34:41 AM »
Yeah, because I wasn't talking about the effectiveness of the vaccine for other people.

Vaccines are not about YOU. They are about EVERYONE, and that means things are statistical. Statistically vaccines have worked well saving millions of people in the World while helping keeping healthcare services up and running by limiting hospitalizations. You are "just" part of the vaccine statistics, just like all of us are. Things could have been even less harmful, if all people had taken the pandemic as a collective rather than an individual thing. Pandemics and individualism is a very problematic combination.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #7321 on: Today at 06:37:35 AM »
If I had a 20 for every time someone has reasoned with greg, "It isn't about YOU" ....
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Offline greg

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #7322 on: Today at 11:01:57 AM »
Ok, so I'm only allowed to talk about general statistical experiences, while others can talk about their personal experiences. Got it.


edit:
Let me see if I can try to explain again, if anyone gets it this time.


The people I know, vaxxed or unvaxxed, who got Covid recently, had the illness for a few days and symptoms for a week. Same happened for me.

But I'm younger than them, and also very healthy. There should be no reason at all to have the expectation of going to hospital (maybe in earlier Covid days that would be a stronger possibility, but it's pretty weak now in comparison).

So my baseline expectation was, at worst, I would have the same result. That's why I used the word "ineffective." I expected to have lesser, or zero, symptoms, but instead got the same baseline expectation.

The conclusion was that it was mostly due to the time gap. That's fine. We can leave it at that.

There is literally no point to contend with here. I'm not commenting on overall statistics at all, or effectivity of the vaccine for the general population.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:14:25 PM by greg »
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #7323 on: Today at 01:12:21 PM »
Ok, so I'm only allowed to talk about general statistical experiences, while others can talk about their personal experiences. Got it.

No, you haven’t got it at all.

You didn’t just talk about your personal experiences, you talked about the effectiveness of a vaccine that came across as saying that the vaccine was pointless, just because of your personal experience. You didn’t just tell us you got sick, you drew conclusions from it.

It’s on the same level as saying that climate change must not be happening because it snowed in your town today. The snow is personal experience, but the other part is faulty reasoning. 

I recognise that you might not have been trying to say that vaccines are generally pointless, but that’s what you come across as implying precisely because effectiveness only makes sense in general, statistical terms, not in an individual case. And as I’ve already said you actually have no way of knowing whether your illness would have been worse if you were unvaccinated.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:16:38 PM by Madiel »
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Offline greg

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #7324 on: Today at 01:18:23 PM »
I recognise that you might not have been trying to say that vaccines are generally pointless, but that’s what you come across as implying precisely because effectiveness only makes sense in general, statistical terms, not in an individual case. And as I’ve already said you actually have no way of knowing whether your illness would have been worse if you were unvaccinated.
Okay, you get it now.

This is why it's much better having discussions with you than certain others around here.

What is a better word than effectiveness, for one person? Just replace that word with it.




And as I’ve already said you actually have no way of knowing whether your illness would have been worse if you were unvaccinated.
Right. I'm simply comparing to expectations. Maybe they are bad expectations, which we seem to have concluded.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #7325 on: Today at 01:25:21 PM »
I no longer expect not getting sick, because I live in the world’s most vaccinated city and people around me are constantly getting sick.

Meanwhile I’ve just had a cold that took 3 weeks to clear up… LOTS of things are circulating more this winter as people interact more than they did the past 2 years.

There’s been some discussion of reimposing mask requirements in Australia as case numbers soar. I doubt it will happen. You do see a fair amount of masks in certain settings. In general I carry mine but just try to keep my distance from random people.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #7326 on: Today at 01:42:29 PM »
What is a better word than effectiveness, for one person? Just replace that word with it.

How the vaccine affects a certain person is unpredictable, but how the vaccine affects large populations statistically is predictable. That's why effectiveness only makes sense statistically in the case of the vaccine. We can talk about risk reduction. That incorporates the statistical nature even when talking about just one person.
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Offline greg

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #7327 on: Today at 03:02:26 PM »
Meanwhile I’ve just had a cold that took 3 weeks to clear up
3 weeks? Yikes.


How the vaccine affects a certain person is unpredictable, but how the vaccine affects large populations statistically is predictable. That's why effectiveness only makes sense statistically in the case of the vaccine. We can talk about risk reduction. That incorporates the statistical nature even when talking about just one person.
Yes.
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