Author Topic: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)  (Read 1225129 times)

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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #17880 on: December 13, 2019, 02:35:50 PM »
Mitch McConnell during an interview with (of course) Sean Hannity:

"We'll listen to the opening arguments by the House prosecutors. We'll listen to the president's lawyers respond. Then we'll have to make a decision about the way forward. Everything I'm doing during this I'm coordinating with White House counsel. There will be no difference between the president's position and our position as to how to handle this — to the extent that we can....
We'll be working through this process, hopefully in a short period of time, in total coordination with the White House counsel's office and the people representing the president in the well of the Senate."

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #17881 on: December 13, 2019, 03:00:08 PM »
White House further limits officials on Trump's foreign leader calls in wake of Ukraine scandal

"President Donald Trump's senior aides have further restricted the number of administration officials allowed to listen to the President's phone calls with foreign leaders since his July 25 call with Ukraine's President was revealed and became the centerpiece of the impeachment inquiry, according to multiple White House sources.

Transcripts of Trump's calls with world leaders are also disseminated to a far smaller group of people inside the White House, those administration sources say, continuing an effort to limit the number of people with insight and information about the conversations.

It amounts to a concerted effort to prevent Trump's conversations -- which officials have said sometimes veer off into unguarded or undiplomatic territory -- from becoming known to even those inside the administration.

"Nobody is allowed on the calls," a White House official said, describing the new effort to limit those with access to the calls to only the President's senior-most aides, barring some senior and mid-level career staff from listening in. "The barn door officially closed after the horse escaped."[...]

Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #17882 on: December 13, 2019, 04:51:18 PM »
"Manipulating her" would mean making her say things she doesn't want to say and go places she doesn't want to go.

Who is doing this? Really: specifically who?

The people sponsoring her trips and speeches. They have made her the means to their end: she's a prop, to be used and discarded when she's no longer useful.
Manipulating people is done all the time.  It's not making her talk and act against her will. Manipulation is making the manipulated person voluntarily do the will of the manipulator because they think doing so is a good thing.

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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #17883 on: December 13, 2019, 05:10:36 PM »
The people sponsoring her trips and speeches. They have made her the means to their end: she's a prop, to be used and discarded when she's no longer useful.
Manipulating people is done all the time.  It's not making her talk and act against her will. Manipulation is making the manipulated person voluntarily do the will of the manipulator because they think doing so is a good thing.

"Manipulating" isn't a synonym of "assisting" or "supporting" or "helping".

Furthermore you're assuming a cynicism in those aiding her strategy, and assuming she has no ability to push back against what she might not wish - which is hard to believe, given that she got her first fame by pushing back against authority.

If there are going to be claims of "manipulation" I'd like to at the very least hear something anecdotal from someone close to her.(she herself answered the question of manipulation by saying that if somebody is pointing out a fire you should be more concerned with the fire than the person pointing)

Offline JBS

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #17884 on: December 13, 2019, 05:30:05 PM »
"Manipulating" isn't a synonym of "assisting" or "supporting" or "helping".

Furthermore you're assuming a cynicism in those aiding her strategy, and assuming she has no ability to push back against what she might not wish - which is hard to believe, given that she got her first fame by pushing back against authority.

If there are going to be claims of "manipulation" I'd like to at the very least hear something anecdotal from someone close to her.(she herself answered the question of manipulation by saying that if somebody is pointing out a fire you should be more concerned with the fire than the person pointing)

You are assuming it's her stategy. But some people have put more than a little money into it (that boat and the trip to New York needed funding, obviously). That in and of itself means she is being used.

You don't seem to have read what I wrote before...

1)People she trusts 2)have persuaded her 3)to do certain things. These people are doing so 4)for their own benefit and with no regard for what is good for her. 
The remark you attribute to her is exactly the sort of remark people make when they are being used as a prop. And a person can volunteer to be a prop. But even if they do, using them as a prop is wrong.

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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #17885 on: December 13, 2019, 07:25:23 PM »
Again: you're making a series of assumptions

Why not say she's using the people who trust her if you insist on a cynical interpretation?

Offline dissily Mordentroge

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Re: Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)
« Reply #17886 on: December 13, 2019, 10:45:59 PM »
Not if we retain an Electoral College system where the person who wins the most votes actually loses.
It constantly amazes me most Americans suffer under the delusion their system of government is one of the better forms of democracy.
The Electoral College is only one problem. Allowing the executive branch so much power is madness. A madness that suits the present occupant of the Whitehouse perfectly.
The Human Race is Insane