Last Movie You Watched

[Karl Henning]

Hadn't seen this one in a while: Batman Returns. Not nearly as good as the first, which is putting it diplomatically. No need to ask Keaton why he would not return. Not quite as bad as I'd made it out earlier, but the cruncher is that I just find what Burton made of The Penguin an unnecessary hot mess. I find myself thinking less uncharitably of Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman, but she had big paws to fill.

Michael Keaton speaks:

[Karl Henning]

Michael Keaton speaks:

[Cato]

Especially tragic was the later story of Margot Kidder, who had made a splash in 1972/1973 in Brian De Palma's first big success, Sisters, in which she played twins.

An excerpt...

(But find the entire movie!  A restored version is available from The Criterion Collection.)

I came across a claim that Brian De Palma's inspiration for his movie Sisters was based on the perverted treatment of conjoined twins by Communist doctors in the Stalin era, "scientists" who wanted to study conjoined twins with a shared blood supply but separate nervous systems.

Unlike what happens in the movie, these sisters were never surgically separated.

A Canadian article tells of how they were (mal)treated from birth into adulthood.

https://macleans.ca/society/the-torture-and-sadness-of-russias-most-famous-conjoined-twins/

[Karl Henning]

Now, terra incognita: Batman Forever, a title mildly ironic in that we have a new actor in the rôle. 

[DavidW]

Now, terra incognita: Batman Forever, a title mildly ironic in that we have a new actor in the rôle.

Val Kilmer was actually a good Batman and Bruce Wayne, but unfortunately, the movie was terrible!

[Karl Henning]

Now, terra incognita: Batman Forever, a title mildly ironic in that we have a new actor in the rôle.

I actually rather enjoyed this. I had to do Val Kilmer the courtesy of not disliking him for not being Keaton. Kilmer is a bit more laconic, which works. I like Chris O'Donnell as Robin. I suppose there was a sort of inevitability resulting in Jim Carrey playing The Riddler. I kind of feel that Tommy Lee Jones is wasted, here. He had fun, though. 

Val Kilmer was actually a good Batman and Bruce Wayne, but unfortunately, the movie was terrible!

I'm feeling that its worst bits are lesser evils than those of the prior movie, anyway. 

[Karl Henning]

Val Kilmer was actually a good Batman and Bruce Wayne, but unfortunately, the movie was terrible!

There is admittedly an ample dose of toleration baked in when I write of enjoying Batman Returns and Batman Forever. The best to be said of them is: they fail to fulfill the promise of the first movie, which has elegance and directness of purpose. Once he entered Sequelville, Burton treated it almost uninhibitedly as a personal playground. If I had paid money to see either sequel in the movie house, my disappointment would have been palpable. And in hindsight, the Nolan trilogy (my quarrel here or there notwithstanding) has outclassed Batman Returns and Batman Forever to such a degree, it's like comparing The Da Vinci Code to Moby-Dick.

[Karl Henning]

[Karl Henning]

[Karl Henning]

There is admittedly an ample dose of toleration baked in when I write of enjoying Batman Returns and Batman Forever. The best to be said of them is: they fail to fulfill the promise of the first movie, which has elegance and directness of purpose. Once he entered Sequelville, Burton treated it almost uninhibitedly as a personal playground. If I had paid money to see either sequel in the movie house, my disappointment would have been palpable. And in hindsight, the Nolan trilogy (my quarrel here or there notwithstanding) has outclassed Batman Returns and Batman Forever to such a degree, it's like comparing The Da Vinci Code to Moby-Dick.

Consequently, as a palate-cleanser, 1989's Batman.

[Kalevala]

Consequently, as a palate-cleanser, 1989's Batman.

I enjoyed MK in the first Batman.  Not certain whether or not I've seen any of the followups.  Was Michelle Pfeiffer in the first one?

K

[Karl Henning]

I enjoyed MK in the first Batman.  Not certain whether or not I've seen any of the followups.  Was Michelle Pfeiffer in the first one?

K

Kim Basinger was in the first, as photojournalist Vicky Vale. Michelle Pfeiffer was in the second as Catwoman.

[DavidW]

Consequently, as a palate-cleanser, 1989's Batman.

You should have watched Mr. Mom as your palate-cleanser! Or Birdman.

[Karl Henning]

You should have watched Mr. Mom as your palate-cleanser! Or Birdman.

Hah!

[Karl Henning]

Consequently, as a palate-cleanser, 1989's Batman.

Of the serious Batman movies, this must be my favorite. I've now started watching the featurettes (interesting and informative) and the unintended amusement which they furnish is: all the talk of how everyone wanted an "authentic" dark and serious Batman. More than that, how supposedly  essential that "back to the roots" mission was to the "legacy" of the comic books. And I'll stipulate that the 1989 movie realizes this vision highly successfully, and full marks to Tim Burton therefor.
And yet, what happens with the following two movies?-- a rapid descent into the ridiculous, but with none of the charm of the Bill Dozier series.
They make the Penguin too creepy, on the one hand, for a movie ostensibly for children. Yet they christen him Oswald Cobblepot (nothing cartoonish about that.) Supposedly his henchmen gain access to the Batmobile to tamper with it. And why? So Danny de Vito can play it like an arcade game. The Penguin's remark that he's cold-blooded, one hopes is metaphoric, since obviously that is untrue of the birds.
I do need to revisit Birdman, @DavidW , which is superb, but I wanted to revisit the franchise before the Fall, since now I'm watching Batman and Robin, which my younger brother dubbed a "franchise-killer."

[SimonNZ]

You should have watched Mr. Mom as your palate-cleanser! Or Birdman.

Or Speechless!!

[Karl Henning]

Of the serious Batman movies, this must be my favorite. I've now started watching the featurettes (interesting and informative) and the unintended amusement which they furnish is: all the talk of how everyone wanted an "authentic" dark and serious Batman. More than that, how supposedly  essential that "back to the roots" mission was to the "legacy" of the comic books. And I'll stipulate that the 1989 movie realizes this vision highly successfully, and full marks to Tim Burton therefor.
And yet, what happens with the following two movies?-- a rapid descent into the ridiculous, but with none of the charm of the Bill Dozier series.
They make the Penguin too creepy, on the one hand, for a movie ostensibly for children. Yet they christen him Oswald Cobblepot (nothing cartoonish about that.) Supposedly his henchmen gain access to the Batmobile to tamper with it. And why? So Danny de Vito can play it like an arcade game. The Penguin's remark that he's cold-blooded, one hopes is metaphoric, since obviously that is untrue of the birds.
I do need to revisit Birdman, @DavidW , which is superb, but I wanted to revisit the franchise before the Fall, since now I'm watching Batman and Robin, which my younger brother dubbed a "franchise-killer."

So, is Batman and Robin worse than Batman Forever? I'd rule that the team of Ahnold's Mr Freeze and Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy (there's Bane, too, but he's basically just a dull-witted henchman) is overall arguably less annoying than Riddler and Two-Face. And the reconciliation of Freeze and Batman is a unique moment in the franchise. There's ongoing tension in the Dynamic Duo which a fan of Adam West/Burt Ward finds fundamentally wrong,  but as far as I know, maybe that's another instance of being true to the source. It seems to resolve at the end, together with acceptance of Batgirl.
Bottom line: call it a draw.

[DavidW]

So, is Batman and Robin worse than Batman Forever? I'd rule that the team of Ahnold's Mr Freeze and Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy (there's Bane, too, but he's basically just a dull-witted henchman) is overall arguably less annoying than Riddler and Two-Face. And the reconciliation of Freeze and Batman is a unique moment in the franchise. There's ongoing tension in the Dynamic Duo which a fan of Adam West/Burt Ward finds fundamentally wrong,  but as far as I know, maybe that's another instance of being true to the source. It seems to resolve at the end, together with acceptance of Batgirl.
Bottom line: call it a draw.

Well, that's one take at least. I guess you have a high tolerance for bad puns and bat nipples.

Joel Schumacher himself has apologized for how bad Batman and Robin is.

[DavidW]

Here is my ranking of Batman movies:

S tier: The Dark Knight
A tier: Batman Begins, The Batman (2022), Batman (1989)
B tier: The Dark Knight Rises
C tier: Batman Returns
D tier: Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, Batman v Superman

[Karl Henning]

Well, that's one take at least. I guess you have a high tolerance for bad puns and bat nipples.

Joel Schumacher himself has apologized for how bad Batman and Robin is.

I didn't notice bat nipples. Was I doing it wrong?