UK General Election 2024

[steve ridgway]

Well not until the election anyway .

[Luke]

That's it?  At least in the states, national level corruption involves real money, and sometimes gold bars stored at home.

Yes, I should have said 100s of 1000000s as in eg the 200000000 contract given to  a Tory lingerie peer to make PPE during the pandemic (she took the money, including 29000000 for herself, IIRC, but provided unusable PPE in return). Bottom line is, the Tories have had their hands in the till for years, for themselves and their mates. Their behaviour has been scandalous, appalling. But Angela Rayner...

[Luke]

Yes well as an addict of Shark Tank and the UK equivalent, Dragons Den, I've learned that everything to do with money is bigger in he USA.  However, I think if we look at Sunak's grift, we'd find some very significant sums making their way from the UK treasury to companies he has a stake in.

To his wife's companies too.

[Todd]

Political parties' spend is also capped at £30,000 for each constituency that it contests in a general election. So if a party stood a candidate in each of the 650 UK constituencies, its maximum spend would total £19.5m.

Pfft, that ain't democracy.  This is democracy:

Dem convention prime spots: $5M



But the parties here are very, very, very, very, very different from one another.

[steve ridgway]

Pfft, that ain't democracy.  This is democracy:

Dem convention prime spots: $5M



But the parties here are very, very, very, very, very different from one another.

It's a lot of money to spend cancelling out what the other party spends. Does anyone end up with some or is it all annihilated like matter and anti-matter?

[71 dB]

Politics has returned to GMG? 

[Papy Oli]

Yes, I should have said 100s of 1000000s as in eg the 200000000 contract given to  a Tory lingerie peer to make PPE during the pandemic (she took the money, including 29000000 for herself, IIRC, but provided unusable PPE in return). Bottom line is, the Tories have had their hands in the till for years, for themselves and their mates. Their behaviour has been scandalous, appalling. But Angela Rayner...

Angela Rayner is much more a threat to the Tories in the way she usually makes mincemeat of them in parliament (like Yvette Cooper does). There is no comparison in terms of scale with Mone or that JCB bloke etc... but the Tories will claw to that story to weaken her in one way or another.

That said, purely in terms of principle, that makes it more difficult for her to call the other side "scum" if/when you have (allegedly) fiddled the books yourself (even in a very minimal manner).

[ritter]

Politics has returned to GMG? 

Well, I suppose that discussing British politics is more fun than listening to Vaughan Willims, Britten, and other English composers... 

But you have a point, Poju. Thanks!

All GMGers be advised that if this thread gets nasty, it will be locked immediately without any warning.

[Todd]

Does anyone end up with some or is it all annihilated like matter and anti-matter?

The money is funneled to campaigns, PACs, and Super-PACs, which in turn funnel money to law firms and consultancies and ad agencies, all of which in turn spend money on internet, radio, direct, and above all, TV advertising.  So, it's one group of superrich people indirectly paying money to another group of superrich people.  The irony here is that the majority of TV stations in the US are owned by a small number of companies, and most of the privately held companies are owned by "conservatives".  (Hence the genius of LBJ - meaning Lady Bird, not Lyndon Baines - who owned her own radio (KLBJ - I'm not making it up) and TV (KTBC) stations so she got to keep the ad dollars!)

[71 dB]

Well, I suppose that discussing British politics is more fun than listening to Vaughan Willims, Britten, and other English composers... 

But you have a point, Poju. Thanks!

All GMGers be advised that if this thread gets nasty, it will be locked immediately without any warning.

I may have been a lot into political discussions/debate in the past, but not anymore. People can keep their views and I keep my views on politics. The only political power I have is voting in Finnish elections. Beyond that it doesn't matter what I say/write and think. If anything, saying something political can get me in trouble on discussion boards thanks to all the toxicity of current internet culture. That's why I don't really share my political views online anymore and I have to say, listening to British composers is more attractive idea.

[foxandpeng]

Haha. I'm prepared to lay down money that this thread will go South PDQ

It's a good job we have Vaughan Williams, Britten, and other fine English composers to raise the tone of the inevitable cucumber sandwich fight... 

[steve ridgway]

Politics has returned to GMG? 

It's only British politics, nothing serious .

[Todd]

It's only British politics, nothing serious .

And as such, I must ask, does Liz Truss stand a chance of returning as PM?  I hear a head of lettuce wants a rematch.

[Spotted Horses]

It's a lot of money to spend cancelling out what the other party spends. Does anyone end up with some or is it all annihilated like matter and anti-matter?

Negative campaigning on both sides may cancel in terms of votes. But it doesn't cancel in terms of the cynicism that it leaves in its wake.

[Karl Henning]

Well, I suppose that discussing British politics is more fun than listening to Vaughan Willims, Britten, and other English composers... 

Burn!

[Florestan]

This year Romania will have 4 rounds of elections: local, EU-level, parliamentary and presidential.

A very good friend I alluded to in another thread tries hard to convince me to vote for a specific party --- unsuccessfully, for three reasons:

(1) politically and economically, I lean toward classical liberalism; culturally, I lean toward cosmopolitanism; religiously, I lean toward liberal Eastern Orthodoxy, whereas that party is authoritarian, protectionist, nationalist and fundamentalist;

(2) I am pro-EU and pro-NATO, whereas that party is anti-EU and anti-NATO;

(3) I believe partisan politics and policies are part of the problem, not of the solution, whereas he believes that if only the party he supports won a comfortable majority, Romania would instantly turn into paradise on earth.

Aditionally, the cynic in me believes that, in the contemporary world, corrupt and unprincipled politicians might perhaps be the price of freedom. I'd rather live under Rishi Sunak than under Maximilien Robespierre.

[Irons]

The 'they're all as bad as each other answer' is a cop out which the right wing press like to encourage as it lets them off the hook. In this case what Rayner may or may not have done re her living arrangements concerns sums in the low 1000s; the self-interested corruption the Tories have been getting away with for years (PPE contracts for mates, Johnson's many loans from his mates, etc etc, I really don't want to list everything) runs into the many 1000000s. Really not comparable, no matter what the Mail and Telegraph would like to pretend.

Corruption is what it is. I don't follow the line low scale corruption is OK. 

[Luke]

Corruption is what it is. I don't follow the line low scale corruption is OK. 

1) Corruption is secret bungs given to your mates, it's using your position to gain unfair advantage, it's rigging the system in your favour etc. It's what the Tories have been doing, shamelessly, and increasingly seriously, as long as they have been in power. The Rayner issue is of a different type to this, not just of a totally different financial magnitude.

2) Rayner hasn't been found guilty of anything. The police are investigating because a Tory MP asked them to, just as they investigated Starmer when the same Tory MP asked them to investigate so-called 'Beergate.' As with Rayner the right wing press had a field day, as the accusations allowed them to propose that insidious 'all as bad as each other' line and thus take some heat off their beloved Johnson. Starmer, of course, was found entirely innocent (unlike Johnson). Let's see what happens with Rayner

[Pohjolas Daughter]

On a lighter note, might I suggest that as an American that it's rather amusing that the election will be held on the Fourth of July?     

PD

[steve ridgway]

On a lighter note, might I suggest that as an American that it's rather amusing that the election will be held on the Fourth of July?     

PD

It was democratic in the sense of getting rid of the people who had no vote .