UK General Election 2024

Started by DaveF, May 22, 2024, 10:09:57 AM

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steve ridgway

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 16, 2024, 03:20:25 PMWhy?  Ignorant American here.  :-[
Wrong boundaries??

PD

The counties as divisions of the UK go back many hundreds of years and developed distinct cultures but have been tampered with to create more convenient units for local government such as "Greater Manchester". However they have proven quite resilient as with that band marching through Saddleworth to celebrate Yorkshire Day, or on a number of informative boundary signs. Hence some people's antipathy to being absorbed into the EU and some arbitrary region designed to undermine national identity.


Mandryka

#201
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 15, 2024, 05:49:08 AMSingle-member-district system discourages ideologue candidates and encourages moderate, centrist candidates as the former don't win plural vote within districts. Proportional representation system, utilized in Scandinavia, Low Countries, et al., doesn't discourage ideological parties. But after elections, all these ideologue members may have difficulty making consensus in legislature.

18% of the poll say they'll vote for Reform. They are forecast to win 2 constituencies out of 650. Is this democracy?  Is it a good thing? You're the expert!

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/voting-intention

https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1802305636635419004
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Todd

Quote from: Mandryka on June 17, 2024, 02:52:57 AM18% of the poll say they'll vote for Reform. They are forecast to win 2 constituencies out of 650. Is this democracy?  Is it a good thing? You're the expert!

Seems like underrepresentation to me, but as it is in a different country, I will lose zero minutes of sleep over it.

When I got online this morning, I saw multiple articles wherein Nigel Farage claims he will go for the PM slot in 2029.  Don't know if he's serious or not.  Either way, this UK election is getting more coverage than normal in my normal news sources. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#203
Quote from: Mandryka on June 17, 2024, 02:52:57 AM18% of the poll say they'll vote for Reform. They are forecast to win 2 constituencies out of 650. Is this democracy?  Is it a good thing? You're the expert!

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/voting-intention

https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1802305636635419004



The bad thing is that it's unrepresentative and undemocratic. The good thing is that it discourages extreme ideologues, such as neo-Nazi, communist, white supremacist parties, and encourages moderate, centrist parties- usually the two major parties. It tends to encourage a swift policy change/policy making by a (new) majority party in parliament in contrast to a time-consuming and sometimes unpredictable bargaining process in a multi-party parliament with proportional representation system. Sometimes the latter is unable to make a majority coalition to make policy (so-called Gordian Knot). In short, the Anglo system is for a swift policy change in the government rather than fair representation of voters.
Iron law in politics/government is that there is a trade off between efficiency and representation in government.

Todd

Saw this from The Telegraph this morning, and I did, in fact, LOL: Lazy civil servants are driving Britain to the brink

At least the paper is consistent.  Here's an op-ed from April: The lazy, bloated civil service is dragging Britain down - and we are all paying for it

Fortunately, in the States, press coverage is much, much less sensational, more sober, and less obviously partisan.  Whew!

The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Mandryka

#205
Quote from: Todd on June 18, 2024, 07:08:08 AMSaw this from The Telegraph this morning, and I did, in fact, LOL: Lazy civil servants are driving Britain to the brink

At least the paper is consistent.  Here's an op-ed from April: The lazy, bloated civil service is dragging Britain down - and we are all paying for it

Fortunately, in the States, press coverage is much, much less sensational, more sober, and less obviously partisan.  Whew!





The British media is very partisan, not just mainstream print media, but also the BBC. It's all part of the managed democracy we live with. The Telegraph used to be a Tory paper, I think it abandoned the Conservatives after Boris was ousted and now supports Farage. The left would claim that Corbyn failed (partly?) because of the way he was presented by the press and by television.

Younger cohorts just aren't interested in mainstream media -  but Tik Tok, Youtube, X all present their own biases, with highly managed feeds.





Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Todd

Quote from: Mandryka on June 18, 2024, 07:15:04 AMIt's all part of the managed democracy we live

This would imply that corporate entities, via wealthy managers, and wealthy individuals rule in an oligarchic manner.  That simply cannot be, not in 2024.  No way.  Nuh-uh.


Quote from: Mandryka on June 18, 2024, 07:15:04 AMYounger cohorts just aren't interested in mainstream media -  but Tik Tok, Youtube, X all present their own biases, with highly managed feeds.

This can't be true.  The information superhighway is unbiased and truthful.  I was promised as much in the 90s and I firmly believe it.  I know in my heart it is true in the US!!
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

steve ridgway

I think we can forget Reform UK now. Farage said the West provoked Russia to invade Ukraine by "expanding" the EU and NATO in their direction. I don't recall the EU or NATO driving tanks over the borders and annexing anyone ::) .

Mandryka

Quote from: steve ridgway on June 21, 2024, 11:12:05 PMI think we can forget Reform UK now. Farage said the West provoked Russia to invade Ukraine by "expanding" the EU and NATO in their direction. I don't recall the EU or NATO driving tanks over the borders and annexing anyone ::) .

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Irons

Quote from: steve ridgway on June 21, 2024, 11:12:05 PMI think we can forget Reform UK now. Farage said the West provoked Russia to invade Ukraine by "expanding" the EU and NATO in their direction. I don't recall the EU or NATO driving tanks over the borders and annexing anyone ::) .

Something fishy about Farage. Where is the funding coming from? Reform is not short of cash by any means. Is he in cahoots with Trump? The criticism of NATO is from the Trump songbook. The way Farage rolled into Clacton surrounded by bodyguards spilling from a fleet of top range Land Rovers a scary sight. If Reform is the new British right and Trump wins, God help us!
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

71 dB

Quote from: steve ridgway on June 21, 2024, 11:12:05 PMFarage said the West provoked Russia to invade Ukraine by "expanding" the EU and NATO in their direction. I don't recall the EU or NATO driving tanks over the borders and annexing anyone ::) .

Finland joined NATO because Russia attacked Ukraine. Without the war in Ukraine Finland (and Sweden) would not be members of NATO today. Clearly annexing parts of Ukraine is much more important for Russia than keeping Finland out of NATO. Otherwise they would have kept away from Ukraine and instead practised peaceful rhetoric.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
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My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Elgarian Redux

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on June 16, 2024, 03:20:25 PMWhy?  Ignorant American here.  :-[
Wrong boundaries??

PD

Curiously, there has always been a heightened feeling whenever Yorkshire played Lancashire at cricket (referred to as a 'Roses Match'). I'm happy to say that no player ever died in one of these matches, and the reigning Monarch's continuance did not depend on the result.

Mandryka

From Alistair Campbell

JUST BEEN LEAKED NOTE BY HEAD OF TORY CAMPAIGN (the one standing in for the one on leave of absence courtesy of William Hill) MEMO ALL CANDIDATES ... THE REALITY. 1. We cannot campaign on our record because nothing has improved since we took office. 2. The biggest change we made last Parliament was Brexit and we can't campaign on that because the people who hated it hate it more and the people who liked it know we have ballsed it up. 3. We can't campaign on our leaders because we have had five in eight years which suggests none of them were very good. 4. We can't campaign on Labour being a risk to security and the economy because nobody can do worse than we have and anyway people seem to think
@Keir_Starmer
 is pretty decent and he is for sure not Corbyn. 5. So LADS, all we have left is this ... behave like we have lost, it's all over bar the shouting, towel thrown in, and hope to God millions of people don't bother to vote us out because they think somebody else will do it. I know it's desperate and a bit anti-democratic but needs must. We're shit and we know we are and so this is it!!! Fuck everything up. Crash the car. Make ourselves look even more unelectable and useless at campaigns. Willie Whitelaw used to talk about travelling the country stirring up apathy. That is all we have left. Do it. Talk up supermajority. I know it is meaningless but it is the only way to stop the superdefeat we all know we deserve. Cheers. Btw we're having Sunday drinks 1pm. BYOB 🍾 🥂 ps new slogan. STAY AT HOME. DON'T VOTE. KEEP THE TORIES haha!!


 https://x.com/campbellclaret/status/1805169230431559700?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

71 dB

Quote from: Mandryka on June 24, 2024, 02:43:50 AMFrom Alistair Campbell

1. We cannot campaign on our record because nothing has improved since we took office.

==> the Labour SHOULD campaign on the lack of improvements during Tory reign.

Quote from: Mandryka on June 24, 2024, 02:43:50 AM2. The biggest change we made last Parliament was Brexit and we can't campaign on that because the people who hated it hate it more and the people who liked it know we have ballsed it up.

To be fair there never was a way to make Brexit work (for regular people that is, for the elite it is working just fine I believe).

Quote from: Mandryka on June 24, 2024, 02:43:50 AM3. We can't campaign on our leaders because we have had five in eight years which suggests none of them were very good.

Yep. It has been a clown show and British people are paying dearly for the circus.

Quote from: Mandryka on June 24, 2024, 02:43:50 AM4. We can't campaign on Labour being a risk to security and the economy because nobody can do worse than we have and anyway people seem to think
@Keir_Starmer is pretty decent and he is for sure not Corbyn.

Starmer is certainly not Corbyn! He is much worse, but most probably better than what Tory leaders/clowns have been. His insistence on the UK never trying to get back into EU under his leadership is politically idiotic considering how the support for Brexit is diminishing when people are seeing/realising what it has brought to the UK/them.

Quote from: Mandryka on June 24, 2024, 02:43:50 AM5. So LADS, all we have left is this ... behave like we have lost, it's all over bar the shouting, towel thrown in, and hope to God millions of people don't bother to vote us out because they think somebody else will do it. I know it's desperate and a bit anti-democratic but needs must. We're shit and we know we are and so this is it!!! Fuck everything up. Crash the car. Make ourselves look even more unelectable and useless at campaigns. Willie Whitelaw used to talk about travelling the country stirring up apathy. That is all we have left. Do it. Talk up supermajority. I know it is meaningless but it is the only way to stop the superdefeat we all know we deserve. Cheers. Btw we're having Sunday drinks 1pm. BYOB 🍾 🥂 ps new slogan. STAY AT HOME. DON'T VOTE. KEEP THE TORIES haha!!

Political apathy might be best for Tories at this point. In general the right tends to benefit from low voter turnout. Rich people don't suffer from apathy and hopelessness. Poor people do.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

steve ridgway

Quote from: 71 dB on June 25, 2024, 06:31:49 AMTo be fair there never was a way to make Brexit work (for regular people that is, for the elite it is working just fine I believe).

Well Boris Johnson campaigned on "Get Brexit Done" and it is indeed done as much as it could be and we don't hear much about it now.

The current headlines are around who in the Conservative Party, Sunak's police protection squad, and their mates found out the date of the election and bet on it before it was publicly announced.

71 dB

Quote from: steve ridgway on June 25, 2024, 06:50:27 AMThe current headlines are around who in the Conservative Party, Sunak's police protection squad, and their mates found out the date of the election and bet on it before it was publicly announced.

Opportunists!  :D
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Mandryka

Quote from: steve ridgway on June 25, 2024, 06:50:27 AMWell Boris Johnson campaigned on "Get Brexit Done" and it is indeed done as much as it could be and we don't hear much about it now.




That's a conspiracy of silence I guess. That's to say, the political class don't want to have the issue raised because they don't have anything to good say, and their client journalists toe the line.

In fact polls show significant disaffection with the Tory's post Brexit strategy but upward pressure on the media doesn't seem to be being felt - maybe in the Telegraph (a large Reform readership), I don't know.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Papy Oli

Quote from: Mandryka on July 04, 2024, 02:26:59 AMhttps://portillogeddon.com/

Conservative Wipeout Bingo 2024

Tip top that :laugh:  :laugh:

Sent it to a relative planning an all-nighter 8)

Olivier