Tchaikovsky

Started by tjguitar, April 16, 2007, 01:54:11 PM

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Florestan

#460
Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 04, 2022, 02:01:52 PM
Hi Andrei - thanks for your comments above - I've looked at the Markevitch in the past and now seems to be available (on Amazon USA) in different releases, not sure how many 're-masterings' may have been done and which one is the best choice of the offerings in the top row below?  Which one (or may be yet another release) do you own? Now I believe these are from the '60s - happy w/ the sound?


I am definetly not an audiophile. I own the Philips set twofer and I'm perfectly happy with it.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Brian

#461
I own Markevitch in both the Newton Classics box and the recent Eloquence box which contains the complete Markevitch Decca and Philips recordings on 26 CDs. It's absolutely one of my favorites, all of them are good and the Fourth is perfect.

Newton Classics was a short-lived reissue label which licensed recordings but did not remaster them. My copy says "this compilation (P) 1990" so I assume that was the remaster timeframe. That set does NOT include Manfred, which he did include as part of the original series.

The big Eloquence box includes every Markevitch Tchaikovsky recording for Philips, which means adding Manfred, Francesca da Rimini, Hamlet, the Capriccio, 1812, and more. I think the whole box is all newly remastered because a remastering engineer is credited in the booklet, but specifics are not provided. I have not compared the sound between the two but I listened to several symphonies from the new box very very loud in my car and it was great.  ;D ;D

Of course, that is a big box - not quite a cube but close - so it may not be something you want to invest in, or you may not have room since you are trying to conserve space! (In case you can be tempted: there is a lot of cool stuff in the box. The Spanish sacred music and zarzuela CDs are incredible good fun and true rarities.)

Jurowski/London is also excellent, the most luxurious and colorful First ever, and a fast exciting Fifth. They are all live concert broadcasts and I was at the one for No. 5 so I am prejudiced in favor  ;D I would choose Jurowski over Petrenko (though they are very close) and also over Jansons (Vlad is more consistent and the sound is newer).

SonicMan46

Quote from: Florestan on July 04, 2022, 02:04:45 PM
I am definetly not an audiophile. I own the Philips set twofer and I'm perfectly happy with it.

Well, I'd not claim to be an 'audiophile' (maybe an 'enophile'  8)) - looking at the back cover of one of those twofers on Amazon, appears that Philips may have remastered the recordings in the mid-90s and the reviews I've read seem positive about the sound effort.  Thanks again.  Dave :)

Jo498

I like the Markevitch and it is/was my main set for a long time (I have it in still another colorful 1990s? box coupled with Haas' piano concertos and some Haitink) and you could try a twofer if you can find them. But I don't think they add much to what you already have. Markevitch is not quite as "Russian" (he hardly lived in Russia at all and spoke, I think, French better than Russian), more "lean and mean" and Muti has a similar approach in ca. 15-20 years more modern sound.

Kitaenko has recent although maybe not audiophile sound and rather broad tempi (so certainly different from e.g. Muti and Markevitch). I was overall not that fond of it though, but also have to admit that I don't care that much for most of the music anyway...
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

vandermolen

#464
The 'glowering darkness' at the end of Koussevitsky's 'Pathetique' (Boston SO, RCA) has always appealed to me.

I also like Mravinsky and this one (Rozhdestvensky):
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

DavidW

Dave my impressions are:

1. Markevitch is very lean and matter of fact.  The typical Russian sound.  If you want the Mravinsky type performance but in better sound, this is it.
2. Jurowski is my favorite set!  I love all the performances.  He brings just as much color and drive to the early ones as he does in the late.  I agree with Brian in particular on the first and fifth.
3. Jansons is a very nice set.  Just gorgeously played.  Might be a good contrast to Markevitch or Mravinsky.


SonicMan46

Thanks all for your excellent comments, esp. about Markevitch - for the moment, I might just stick w/ my collection, and would probably be interested in a more recent cycle (my others go back a bit) - @ Brian, do the Jurowski recordings (being live) have audience participation, particularly clapping - an 'anathema' for me -  :laugh:  Dave :)

Jo498

#467
Quote from: DavidW on July 05, 2022, 07:39:34 AM
1. Markevitch is very lean and matter of fact.  The typical Russian sound.  If you want the Mravinsky type performance but in better sound, this is it.
It's the London Symphony. There is nothing Russian about their sound. And the recording quality is not really better (both 1960s) from the Mravinsky stereo. That doesn't mean that I don't recommend the Markevitch, I do.
I just don't think that it would add a very different approach to either Mravinsky or Muti SonicMan already has.
I always wanted to get Svetlanov in the first 3 but as they are not easy to find and probably not so great 1960s Russian sound, I never heard them (as with my limited interest I couldn't be bothered to pay decent money for used copies). I wonder if there is a recording that plays the first 3 basically like the ballet scores, i.e. atmospheric, playful but not "heavily symphonic".

Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mirror Image

#468
Jurowski and Karajan get my votes for favorite Tchaikovsky symphony cycles. While there are more heavily Russian performances that are readily available, these two conductors have nailed the pathos of this composer more than anyone, IMHO.

I have no idea if both of these sets availability these days, but I can't imagine them being too easy to find in a condition and price that is desirable:


SonicMan46

Thanks again Guys for your further comments - Jurowski does interest me the most (replacement for Pletnev?) - however in reading reviews there is 'audience applause' after each symphony - correct or not?  If so, these recordings are available on Spotify and I'll take a listen - again appreciate all of the helpful comments.  Dave :)

P.S. plus these are not cheap, i.e. about $60 USA and a little less on PrestoMusic when 'across the pond' shipping is considered.

Mirror Image

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 05, 2022, 03:35:10 PM
Thanks again Guys for your further comments - Jurowski does interest me the most (replacement for Pletnev?) - however in reading reviews there is 'audience applause' after each symphony - correct or not?  If so, these recordings are available on Spotify and I'll take a listen - again appreciate all of the helpful comments.  Dave :)

P.S. plus these are not cheap, i.e. about $60 USA and a little less on PrestoMusic when 'across the pond' shipping is considered.

Yes, the Jurowski are live performances and the audience is quiet until their applause at the end. This shouldn't be a deterrent in getting his set. The performances are top-drawer in every respect.

SonicMan46

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 05, 2022, 04:53:59 PM
Yes, the Jurowski are live performances and the audience is quiet until their applause at the end. This shouldn't be a deterrent in getting his set. The performances are top-drawer in every respect.

Thanks John - I'll take a listen on Spotify and if the applause is not a nuisance for me, then will look for a better price - :)  Dave

Mirror Image

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 05, 2022, 04:59:48 PM
Thanks John - I'll take a listen on Spotify and if the applause is not a nuisance for me, then will look for a better price - :)  Dave

Looking forward to reading your report, Dave. :)

staxomega

#473
Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 04, 2022, 02:01:52 PM
Hi Andrei - thanks for your comments above - I've looked at the Markevitch in the past and now seems to be available (on Amazon USA) in different releases, not sure how many 're-masterings' may have been done and which one is the best choice of the offerings in the top row below?  Which one (or may be yet another release) do you own? Now I believe these are from the '60s - happy w/ the sound?

For anyone, I've been looking at more recent releases and some older ones today - bottom row are four that seem to come up and the reviews read are good to excellent on most - any comments for those who know these recordings?  Thanks again - just a final note, I've been listening to some of the discs from the ones shown previously in my collection and am quite happy, so the question becomes to 'add' another cycle? WOWSIE - where's the room -  :laugh:  Dave

     

     

I've caught up with the thread and saw you're passing on the Markevitch, but I'll offer an opinion in case you get that itch for another  ;D I have the two Duo releases, and the Complete Philips Eloquence box and any difference in sound quality between them is trivial. Unless Philips CDs used noise reduction they tended to sound fine and I would just go for whatever is cheapest. Newton Classics also don't remaster anything and just use the existing transfers. This is out there in so many versions I'm sure a used copy would turn up for cheap at some point.

I'm not sure I'd consider the set as a must have (ie if you have space issues) even though it's up there with my favorite cycles.

SonicMan46

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 05, 2022, 04:53:59 PM
Yes, the Jurowski are live performances and the audience is quiet until their applause at the end. This shouldn't be a deterrent in getting his set. The performances are top-drawer in every respect.

Well, I listened to nearly all of the Jurowski performances on Spotify and greatly enjoyed - on streaming there were applause at the end of just 3 of the recordings, not sure if that holds for the physical CDs?  But checked my usually sites, JPC had the set for 63% off! - shipped to me is $38 since the euro is now at $1.02 USD, i.e. about six bucks a disc - I'll accept the applause and desire for a more modern recording for that price - again thanks for the advice; the Pletnev will be culled out for 'space' reasons.  Dave :)


Mirror Image

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 10, 2022, 07:55:29 AM
Well, I listened to nearly all of the Jurowski performances on Spotify and greatly enjoyed - on streaming there were applause at the end of just 3 of the recordings, not sure if that holds for the physical CDs?  But checked my usually sites, JPC had the set for 63% off! - shipped to me is $38 since the euro is now at $1.02 USD, i.e. about six bucks a disc - I'll accept the applause and desire for a more modern recording for that price - again thanks for the advice; the Pletnev will be culled out for 'space' reasons.  Dave :)

Great, Dave! I somehow knew you would enjoy these performances. The couplings with the symphonies are also rather attractive and incredibly well-played like the Serenade for Strings and Francesca da rimini for example. This is also a good price given how difficult it is to find this set nowadays.

Brian

Great to hear! Sounds like a success. If there's applause after the Fifth, that was me and I apologize  ;D

SonicMan46

Thanks again for the help and suggestions - the Jurowski arrived today and now listening, confirming my impressions from hearing on Spotify - will cull out my Pletnev for space issues - BUT, from all of the positive comments, Markevitch still piqued my interest - then listened to Hurwitz on YouTube HERE (yes, I know maybe a NO-NO?  :laugh:) - however, his top pick of 18 symphony cycles reviewed was Markevitch (also in his top five, Jurowski and Muti); so, I was able to find 2 Philips 'used' twofers below stated to be in 'very good' condition for a total of $20 - believe I'm set!  - Dave :)

   

Mirror Image

Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 27, 2022, 10:49:32 AM
Thanks again for the help and suggestions - the Jurowski arrived today and now listening, confirming my impressions from hearing on Spotify - will cull out my Pletnev for space issues - BUT, from all of the positive comments, Markevitch still piqued my interest - then listened to Hurwitz on YouTube HERE (yes, I know maybe a NO-NO?  :laugh:) - however, his top pick of 18 symphony cycles reviewed was Markevitch (also in his top five, Jurowski and Muti); so, I was able to find 2 Philips 'used' twofers below stated to be in 'very good' condition for a total of $20 - believe I'm set!  - Dave :)

   

I think you'll be greatly impressed with the Markevitch cycle, Dave. It was included in this Decca box set I bought last year:



The performances are fabulous, but they are in stiff competition with my two other favorite sets: Jurowski and Karajan.

SonicMan46

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2022, 06:51:09 AM
I think you'll be greatly impressed with the Markevitch cycle, Dave. It was included in this Decca box set I bought last year:



The performances are fabulous, but they are in stiff competition with my two other favorite sets: Jurowski and Karajan.

Thanks John - I went through my Jurowski box a few days ago - great (could have done w/o the applause but not on all discs, and 'live is live' -  :D) - the first Philips twofer of Markevitch (Nos. 1-3) arrived a few days ago and listened yesterday - excellent and as a 'used' set was in great condition - hope the second one is similar.  Dave :)