Tchaikovsky

[Brahmsian]

I know a lot of people haven't even heard this piece yet, but for those who have, what are your recommended recordings of Tchaikovsky's Liturgy of St. John Crysostom, Op.41?

[karlhenning]

I've only heard one, the Brilliant reissue of the National Choir of the Ukraine « Dumka » . . . which is exquisite, Ray.

[Brahmsian]

I've only heard one, the Brilliant reissue of the National Choir of the Ukraine « Dumka » . . . which is exquisite, Ray.

Hmm, that was the one I was actually eyeing and considering, so this just might close the deal.  Thanks, Karl. 

[Renfield]

BALLETS
Russian ballet music before Tchaikovsky was vapid stuff, amounting to little more than background music for displays of the dancers' qualities. Tchaikovsky introduced a greater range of rhythms, and increased richness of melody and orchestration, and above all gave ballet a sense of symphonic construction - in short, he gave respect to ballet music as an art form. Classical ballet owes more to Tchaikovsky than to any other composer, and if Swan Lake, The Sleeping Beauty and The Nutcracker met with little more than polite approval during Tchaikovsky's life time, they are now the world's most frequently performed dance scores.

[asin]B000001GX7[/asin]
This recording of suites from Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty and The Nutcracker is a bargain at mid-price. Rostropovich is not the greatest conductor but his Tchaikovsky performances are always full-blooded and he is given ravishing support from the Berlin Philharmonic. Both he and the orchestra clearly enjoy every minute of this music.

That really is a nice recording. There's a kind of, as you say, full-blooded quality to these performances, to great effect.

[Brahmsian]

I should have picked this up at the local bookstore today.  They had it listed at $14.99 CDN for the DVD, and it is such a marvelous production and Fleming and Hvorostovsky are simply mesmerizing, and have undeniable chemistry.

They have a bunch of other Classical Music DVDs for $14.99, so perhaps tomorrow I'll go grab this one, and have a closer look at some of the other DVD recordings available.

[asin]B000YCLRBA[/asin]

[karlhenning]

Onegin is splendid, Ray!

[Brahmsian]

Onegin is splendid, Ray!

Karl, have you watched that particular production of Onegin?

[karlhenning]

Don't know that one myself, Ray, but good friends of mine subscribe at the Met and I remember them speaking well of it musically.  Once I watched a DVD of a German production with rather a spare set (though at least there were no leather-clad terrorists) . . . one can count on the Met to take a more traditional angle on Onegin here, meseems. I'd resk it, meself.

[snyprrr]

Onegin is splendid, Ray!

Did you hear about Tchaikovsky's relationship? It was Onegin off again!

[karlhenning]

Doesn't work if one is accustomed to the Russian pronunciation . . . which comes out to something like ah-ñeh-geen

[snyprrr]

Doesn't work if one is accustomed to the Russian pronunciation . . . which comes out to something like ah-ñeh-geen

Mayonaise a lot of pretty girls here tonight!

[Brian]

My parents just attended a concert of Tchaikovsky's First and Fifth Symphonies. My father commented on the First, "There's a reason we've never heard of it. He was just trying to imitate Mendelssohn."

I was slightly hurt. But is it fair criticism?

[DavidW]

Well it is a student composition.  Inspired by Mendelssohn, and an exercise in writing a symphony in classical form.  But I think you still here Tchaikovsky's personality seep through.

[Cato]

My parents just attended a concert of Tchaikovsky's First and Fifth Symphonies. My father commented on the First, "There's a reason we've never heard of it. He was just trying to imitate Mendelssohn."

I was slightly hurt. But is it fair criticism?

No: take it from Cato! Winter Dreams is an excellent work.  Its extra-musical associations might upset purists, but apparently some great conductors were not concerned about them, e.g. Herbert von Karajan found it worthy of his time and of a recording, so that is worth something!   

And so what if he was trying to imitate Mendelssohn?  The result is a work as Tchaikovskyan and as Russian as can be, and it is not a Russian sound filtered through Berlin first.

[Wanderer]

The result is a work as Tchaikovskyan and as Russian as can be, and it is not a Russian sound filtered through Berlin first.

Very succinctly put.

[JerryS]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. The Sixth is built around an idea in my opinion which Tchaikovsky sketched in one of his other symphonies: "No, no, there is no hope." The first movement's intro-expo-development acts as a sort of overture for the whole work (again purely opinion): expression of profound emotional turmoil, followed by an expression of hope (the second subject) which is built and built until it seems to be winning the day with its lyrical consolation - only to be cut off by a reminder that fate will conquer all, in the most mortifyingly powerful of development sections.

This pattern encompasses the whole symphony: the first movement can be seen as a mirror of its own opening, full of turmoil and despair; the second and third movements as the return of hope and consolation. Eventually we seem on the road to triumph, to success. Our hopes build up - our fortunes rise - as in the first movement's second subject - and we reach a final shatteringly joyous climax, sending us up to the heavens - and then!

There are only two moments like it in musical history, I think: the first movement of the very same symphony (by design!) and the conclusion of Brahms' Fourth. What makes the irony of the double-pattern of the Tchaikovsky Sixth - the way that the entire symphony's emotional range and content is structured in precisely the same way as the opening half of the first movement - is that unlike in the first statement of the work's structure, when the final return of Fate is the loud, apocalyptic first-mvt. development, in the full work itself the final return of Fate is impassioned, yes, but soft, bittersweet, even more desperate and alone, not in anger but in the sorrow of loss and acceptance of the tragic destiny which awaits ...

- - -

My idea on the Fifth Symphony is similarly strange. I've always felt the final coda seems fake not because it is, but because it's ironic. To my mind the finale has always been the most tragic part of the symphony, because of some sort of unstated loss, some sort of feeling that this is not really the end.

Maybe it's just in my head.

I've been catching up with some of the threads here and Brian's comments reminded me of a review of a recent San Antonio Symphony performance of the 6th Symphony. Brian and the reviewer, Mike Greenberg, have some good observations about Tchaikovsky's "mistake" in having such an applause-grabbing scherzo before the final movement.

http://www.incidentlight.com/Music%20reviews/tchaikovsky110509.html

[abidoful]

I've been catching up with some of the threads here and Brian's comments reminded me of a review of a recent San Antonio Symphony performance of the 6th Symphony. Brian and the reviewer, Mike Greenberg, have some good observations about Tchaikovsky's "mistake" in having such an applause-grabbing scherzo before the final movement.

http://www.incidentlight.com/Music%20reviews/tchaikovsky110509.html

Psycholigically/narratively/dramatically it works!

[Brahmsian]

Giving this symphony a listen - I ignore it way too often, compared to the other 5.   

Tchaikovsky

Symphony No. 3 in D major, Op.29 "Polish"

Riccardo Muti
Philharmonia Orchestra
Brilliant Classics


Is there anyone else who listens to this symphony, from time to time?  This is the first time I'm listening to it, that I'm actually enjoying it.  Seems to remind me more of some of his music for ballet, and more akin to the music of his orchestral suites.  To my ears, anyway.   

[karlhenning]

Yes, I do love the three earlier symphonies, nearly as well as the great later symphonies.

Was thinking of you yesterday, Ray, as my glance fell on the spine of the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom disc. Need to revisit that one, myself!

[The new erato]

Was thinking of you yesterday, Ray, as my glance fell on the spine of the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom disc. Need to revisit that one, myself![/font]

In that sentence you catches why downloads will never make it for me; downloads are just files, while discs (be it LP of CD) are physical objects connecting to memories and associations. I can remember when I bought discs, and how I played them the first time, who have borrowed them, can you do that with downloads? Blah!!!