Leaving again, no drama

[Henk]

All my best to you, @!Henk! May you have a good and fulfilling life, whatever you chose to do!

Thank you and I wish you all the best as well!

I think I will play lots of Rossini and Messiaen.

[Florestan]

I will play lots of Rossini

Oh, yes, please do!

A Rossini disc a day keeps the doctor away!

[steve ridgway]

I find J. Krishnamurti's Notebook very interesting. He just records his mental experiences over a nine month period rather than trying to expound some philosophy .

https://selfdefinition.org/krishnamurti/Jiddu_Krishnamurt_Notebook.pdf

[Traverso]

I find J. Krishnamurti's Notebook very interesting. He just records his mental experiences over a nine month period rather than trying to expound some philosophy .

https://selfdefinition.org/krishnamurti/Jiddu_Krishnamurt_Notebook.pdf

https://selfdefinition.org/krishnamurti/Jiddu_Krishnamurt_Notebook.pdf
[/quote]



Krishnamurti is also a suspect case. It is known that he had a 24-year relationship with the wife of the man who edited his books. Several abortions and he advised his so-called followers that sexual abstinence is necessary. They are all giants with feet of clay as Anthony Storr has clearly explained in his book. The book Stripping the Gurus or Madame Blavatsky's Baboon are illuminating books in this respect that relegate claims to the realm of fantasy. Many so-called Indian sages or enlightened spirits were pederasts and not averse to money. I will leave it at that.



Fragment


STRIPPING THE GURUS
Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment*
Ramakrishna was a homoerotic pedophile.
His chief disciple, Vivekananda, visited brothels in India.
Krishnamurti carried on an affair for over twenty years with the
wife of a close friend. Chögyam Trungpa drank himself into an early
grave. One of Adi Da's nine "wives" is a former Playboy centerfold.
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh sniffed laughing gas to get high. Andrew
Cohen, guru and publisher of What Is Enlightenment? magazine, by
his own reported admission sometimes feels "like a god."
These are typical of the "wizened sages" to whom otherwise-sensible
people give their devotion and unquestioning obedience, surrender
ing their independence, willpower, and life's savings in the hope of
realizing for themselves the same "enlightenment" as they ascribe to
the "perfect, God-realized" master.
Why?
Is it for being emotionally vulnerable and "brainwashed," as the
"anti-cultists" assert? Or for being "willingly psychologically se
duced," as the apologists unsympathetically counter, confident that
they themselves are "too smart" to ever fall into the same trap? Or
have devotees simply walked, with naïvely open hearts and thirsty
souls, into inherent psychological dynamics of power and obedience
which have showed themselves in classic psychological studies from
Milgram to Zimbardo, and to which each one of us is susceptible
every day of our lives?
Like the proud "Rude Boy" Cohen allegedly said, with a laugh, in re
sponse to the nervous breakdown of one of his devoted followers: "It
could happen to any one of you."
Don't let it happen to you. Don't get suckered in. Be prepared. Be in
formed. Find out what reportedly goes on behind the scenes in even
the best of our world's spiritual communities.
You can start by reading this book.

[San Antone]

The book Stripping the Gurus or Madame Blavatsky's Baboon are illuminating books in this respect that relegate claims to the realm of fantasy.

While I am fully aware that some religious leaders are notorious for hypocrisy and immorality, the book you've recommended has been criticized for being unreliable.  Here's one comment from an Amazon review:

"Stripping the Gurus" by Geoffrey D. Falk is far from an objective attempt to analyze various gurus. Rather it is an exercise in character assassination, which is why it simply cannot be taken very seriously. That is not to say there aren't some important and sometimes disturbing facts raised about those who purport to have some degree of spiritual realization. But much of the information here is second hand and somewhat questionable and often lacking context. Furthermore, there's been no attempt made whatsoever at a balanced portrayal. As the author states up front, he's out to get "dirt" on each subject, so there's a lot of mudslinging and little else.

[AnotherSpin]

I find J. Krishnamurti's Notebook very interesting. He just records his mental experiences over a nine month period rather than trying to expound some philosophy .

https://selfdefinition.org/krishnamurti/Jiddu_Krishnamurt_Notebook.pdf

Jiddu Krishnamurti was a beautiful person. I can't say I've fully explored his ideas, having only read two or three of his books. However, one thing often comes to memory. Once, Jiddu Krishnamurti was asked, "Are you a happy person? What's your secret?" He replied, "I don't mind what happens." No filtering through the mind, yes. That said, I feel much more connected to the ideas of the other Krishnamurti — U.G. Krishnamurti.

[AnotherSpin]

https://selfdefinition.org/krishnamurti/Jiddu_Krishnamurt_Notebook.pdf




Krishnamurti is also a suspect case. It is known that he had a 24-year relationship with the wife of the man who edited his books. Several abortions and he advised his so-called followers that sexual abstinence is necessary. They are all giants with feet of clay as Anthony Storr has clearly explained in his book. The book Stripping the Gurus or Madame Blavatsky's Baboon are illuminating books in this respect that relegate claims to the realm of fantasy. Many so-called Indian sages or enlightened spirits were pederasts and not averse to money. I will leave it at that.



Fragment


STRIPPING THE GURUS
Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment*
Ramakrishna was a homoerotic pedophile.
His chief disciple, Vivekananda, visited brothels in India.
Krishnamurti carried on an affair for over twenty years with the
wife of a close friend. Chögyam Trungpa drank himself into an early
grave. One of Adi Da's nine "wives" is a former Playboy centerfold.
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh sniffed laughing gas to get high. Andrew
Cohen, guru and publisher of What Is Enlightenment? magazine, by
his own reported admission sometimes feels "like a god."
These are typical of the "wizened sages" to whom otherwise-sensible
people give their devotion and unquestioning obedience, surrender
ing their independence, willpower, and life's savings in the hope of
realizing for themselves the same "enlightenment" as they ascribe to
the "perfect, God-realized" master.
Why?
Is it for being emotionally vulnerable and "brainwashed," as the
"anti-cultists" assert? Or for being "willingly psychologically se
duced," as the apologists unsympathetically counter, confident that
they themselves are "too smart" to ever fall into the same trap? Or
have devotees simply walked, with naïvely open hearts and thirsty
souls, into inherent psychological dynamics of power and obedience
which have showed themselves in classic psychological studies from
Milgram to Zimbardo, and to which each one of us is susceptible
every day of our lives?
Like the proud "Rude Boy" Cohen allegedly said, with a laugh, in re
sponse to the nervous breakdown of one of his devoted followers: "It
could happen to any one of you."
Don't let it happen to you. Don't get suckered in. Be prepared. Be in
formed. Find out what reportedly goes on behind the scenes in even
the best of our world's spiritual communities.
You can start by reading this book.

Perhaps they mean Andrew Cohen? He is quite an extraordinary person, possessing immense shakti — the ability to transform people instantly. How Cohen used his power is another matter. Some of his former followers have openly made accusations, including his mother, if I remember right. I missed the chance to see Cohen in person in India earlier this year. His intensive program was very costly, and I no longer have the same interest to collecting gurus I once had.

[Florestan]

While I am fully aware that some religious leaders are notorious for hypocrisy and immorality, the book you've recommended has been criticized for being unreliable.  Here's one comment from an Amazon review:

"Stripping the Gurus" by Geoffrey D. Falk is far from an objective attempt to analyze various gurus. Rather it is an exercise in character assassination, which is why it simply cannot be taken very seriously. That is not to say there aren't some important and sometimes disturbing facts raised about those who purport to have some degree of spiritual realization. But much of the information here is second hand and somewhat questionable and often lacking context. Furthermore, there's been no attempt made whatsoever at a balanced portrayal. As the author states up front, he's out to get "dirt" on each subject, so there's a lot of mudslinging and little else.

And here's another comment from another Amazon review:

A fantastic book, showing the assorted gurus' feet of clay. A must read for any person interested in spiritual development, especially one who is deeply idealistic and in need of basic reality grounding. Too many good people fall victim to purveyors of nifty-sounding ideologies that promise to fulfill their deepest needs, only to end up exploited and abused

And a short review from Dr. David C. Lane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_C._Lane):

Stripping the Gurus is superb--one of the best books of its kind I have ever read. The research is meticulous, the writing engaging, and the overall thesis: devastatingly true. A stellar book.

Whom to trust? I don't know. What I do know is that many Romanian gurus were involved in, trialed, and sentenced to prison for documented cases of sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, human trafficking and rape, including minors among victims.

[Traverso]

For those who like to read.....


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPVzBZcnVWaGw3ZEE/view?resourcekey=0-Ltt2Zqo85CRjb1IRoWphhQ

[AnotherSpin]

For those who like to read.....


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPVzBZcnVWaGw3ZEE/view?resourcekey=0-Ltt2Zqo85CRjb1IRoWphhQ

I'm reluctant to comment on this collection of biased rumors and hasty conclusions presented in the sensationalist style of tabloid journalism. Nevertheless, here are a few observations:

- The book leans more towards character assassination than balanced analysis. While it raises some troubling questions about a few conveniently selected spiritual leaders, much of the information is second-hand, questionable, or taken out of context.

- Falk's approach focuses on exposing personal flaws and oddities, often using human failings (such as personal relationships) to undermine spiritual achievements.

- The conclusions drawn by the author often seem unjustified by the evidence provided.

- Falk makes no effort to distinguish between genuine spiritual realization and personal imperfections, treating all gurus as frauds.

- His disillusionment with Yogananda's organization likely influenced his extreme perspective.

I can continue, but I'm not sure it's necessary...

[Traverso]

I'm reluctant to comment on this collection of biased rumors and hasty conclusions presented in the sensationalist style of tabloid journalism. Nevertheless, here are a few observations:

- The book leans more towards character assassination than balanced analysis. While it raises some troubling questions about a few conveniently selected spiritual leaders, much of the information is second-hand, questionable, or taken out of context.

- Falk's approach focuses on exposing personal flaws and oddities, often using human failings (such as personal relationships) to undermine spiritual achievements.

- The conclusions drawn by the author often seem unjustified by the evidence provided.

- Falk makes no effort to distinguish between genuine spiritual realization and personal imperfections, treating all gurus as frauds.

- His disillusionment with Yogananda's organization likely influenced his extreme perspective.

I can continue, but I'm not sure it's necessary...

There are many sources....

https://guttersnipedas.blogspot.com/2013/11/madame-blavatskys-baboon-history-of.html

I won't elaborate on this any further, as the list (stripping the Gurus) of sources mentioned makes it clear that he didn't just make it all up.

For me there is a tremendous heap of hypocrisy in all kinds of self-proclaimed saviors. Find your own way is my motto.....

For me it is a closed  subject and I will not react on this any further.

[AnotherSpin]

There are many sources....

https://guttersnipedas.blogspot.com/2013/11/madame-blavatskys-baboon-history-of.html

I won't elaborate on this any further, as the list (stripping the Gurus) of sources mentioned makes it clear that he didn't just make it all up.

For me there is a tremendous heap of hypocrisy in all kinds of self-proclaimed saviors. Find your own way is my motto.....

For me it is a closed  subject and I will not react on this any further.

I have no problem with not continuing this discussion.

However, I will note that there is nothing in the apparent world we can truly call our own. Everything is imposed, a result of influences — from family, school, church, news channels, and so on.

It is precisely people like Osho and other Indian gurus who made efforts to free people from these imposed concepts and eliminate the power of egos formed by them. In other words, to finally allow a person to truly find their own way...

Happy listening!

[Iota]

Thank you and I wish you all the best as well!

I think I will play lots of Rossini and Messiaen.

Bon voyage, Henk, wherever you go! That's an intriguing mix of composers you've got lined up to take with you!