Topic: Sergei Taneyev's Tent of Twirbling Tones

[amw]

String Works et al - Taneyev Quartet vs. Carpe Diem SQ?

Hi All - just coming around to re-listen to my Taneyev collection, have only a half dozen CDs (and would like to cull and add - have some duplications).  Present collection includes: 1) String Quartets, first 2 volumes w/ Carpe Diem; 2) Complete Quintets w/ the Taneyev Quartet; 3) Complete String Trios, own both the Belcanto Strings & the Leopold Trio - could cull out one; and 4) Piano Quintet & Trio w/ Repin (duplicated in other recordings owned). 

In perusing Amazon USA today, I saw that Northern Flowers is now offering a 10-disc box w/ the Taneyev Quartet at the great price!

SO, having many who have posted back and forth for years in this thread about the opening challenge above and w/ Carpe Diem now having 5 Naxos Volumes (not sure if more have been released?), which group is favored - attached are reviews of the first 3 Carpe Diem SQ recordings w/ comparison to the others - seems like a 'coin flip' for the reviewers?  Dave

The Taneyev Quartet recordings are certainly not perfect, but imo they are far ahead of the Carpe Diem recordings in terms of quality. The Taneyevs bring to everything they play a great sense of style, a very lived-in quality, and frequent intonation problems; the Carpe Diems are somewhat more technically secure individually, but the ensemble doesn't sound as good together & the performances do sound slightly unidiomatic when compared to the Taneyevs (although not in isolation).

These quartets are difficult works generally, comparable to the late Beethovens in technical demands if nothing else, and I think are still awaiting a technically perfect modern recording—it would be an ideal project for e.g. the Quatuor Danel, St. Petersburg Quartet or Borodin Quartet, or another such ensemble with deep experience in Russian music, but no such ensemble has displayed any interest so far. I think the Taneyevs are currently the way to go, but hope that situation may change in the future with some group laying down a more fully recommendable reference set.

[T. D.]

Hi John - well, that moniker was mentioned in one or several of the reviews in my previous attachment - found a different take HERE w/ the title: SERGEI TANEYEV: TCHAIKOVSKY'S HEIR OR THE RUSSIAN BACH?, since Taneyev was interested in counterpoint - personally, I would not use either comparison - but take a look at the link for some more insight on his style(s) and relationships w/ the Russian composer's of the times - he was quite a substantial presence and more than I had realized.  Dave

Complexity is one term I'd use. Taneyev was an expert on counterpoint and his music is less accessible to the masses and that's one reason he is much less known than his teacher Tchaikovsky and pupil Rachmaninov.

Thanks for the link and comments. Have been considering the Northern Flowers Complete Chamber Music box. I mainly tend to more modern Russian composers, but I love counterpoint and Taneyev consequently appeals.

[SonicMan46]

Thanks for the link and comments. Have been considering the Northern Flowers Complete Chamber Music box. I mainly tend to more modern Russian composers, but I love counterpoint and Taneyev consequently appeals.

Well, I bought the box about the time of my last post - just checked Amazon and same price, i.e. $36.98 USD for 10 CDs, packaged in paper sleeves and put into a compact box w/ a short booklet - Dave

[T. D.]

Well, I bought the box about the time of my last post - just checked Amazon and same price, i.e. $36.98 USD for 10 CDs, packaged in paper sleeves and put into a compact box w/ a short booklet - Dave

Do you like it?  I noticed the price has been stable. Some intonation problems mentioned just above, which I could probably deal with.

[Cato]

Do you like it?  I noticed the price has been stable. Some intonation problems mentioned just above, which I could probably deal with.

Much earlier in this topic, I mentioned intonation problems with this group:

I have just heard - for the first time - The Taneyev Quartet performing, or attempting to perform, the Eighth and Ninth Quartets of Sergei Taneyev.

This is not the edition I have, but here is a newer picture of what they are selling:



If you want to hear wavering microtones in these quartets, as if Taneyev had cosmically pre-channeled Bartok and maybe Penderecki, then this is the CD for you!   

There are spots in the slow movement of the Eighth Quartet where I thought an Alois Haba quartet had been spliced in suddenly!

Apparently intonation is a problem with the group on these recordings: I found some reviews complaining about the same thing on other quartets. 

Let's hope the new NAXOS survey of Taneyev Quartets will not show similar unintended experiments in quarter-tones!   

[T. D.]

Whoa, thanks for that. I only saw the intonation comments on this page.
I enjoy microtonal SQs and own a number of recordings incl. the Haba series (Stamitz Qt) and Ben Johnston series (Kepler Qt complete, various other groups).
But maybe I should stick to microtonal recordings that reflect the underlying scores. 

[Cato]

Whoa, thanks for that. I only saw the intonation comments on this page.
I enjoy microtonal SQs and own a number of recordings incl. the Haba series (Stamitz Qt) and Ben Johnston series (Kepler Qt complete, various other groups).
But maybe I should stick to microtonal recordings that reflect the underlying scores. 

Yes!  In the 1970's I wanted to be a part of what I thought would be a wave of interest in quarter-tone or third-tone music, thanks to developments in the new "synthesizer."      

Yet, as you say, unintended microtonal intonation in a traditional style is just a wrong note! 

[Cato]

I thought I would check on Taneyev news and found this from 2019:

"Pianist and composer Sergei Ivanovich Taneyev was such a good teacher that musicians continue to learn from him. This week’s performance by the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center will demonstrate why.

Artistic director and pianist Wu Han will be performing the “Russian Mastery” program with violinists Arnaud Sussmann and Alexander Sitkovetsky, violist Matthew Lipman and cellist Nicholas Canellakis in Cabell Hall Auditorium as part of the Tuesday Evening Concert Series.

The program includes Taneyev’s “Quintet in G minor for Piano, Two Violins, Viola and Cello, Op. 30,” which Wu Han calls “humongous. Every part of it. It’s like a concerto for all the instruments.

“I just fell in love with it. It has so many details and is so inventive,” she said. “It has so much imagination.”

If you’ve ever wondered why Taneyev’s music isn’t performed as frequently, Wu Han and her colleagues can offer a good idea why.

“It’s really, really hard, and I thought, ‘I’m going to conquer it,’” she said. “It took me a good six years. I can now do a tour with it.”

For the complete article:

https://dailyprogress.com/entertainment/challenging-piano-quintet-composers-legacy-at-heart-of-russian-mastery-concert/article_c887f1b2-45df-11e9-8a1b-3bb557ec50db.html

[T. D.]

Has anyone heard this cpo collection of chamber music with piano?

Seems well-regarded. I recently got this excellent recording of Piano Quintet + Piano Trio

 and the cpo seems like a good way to get the Piano Quartet with some (not unwelcome) duplication.

[Symphonic Addict]

Well, I've only heard the Piano Quartet from the CPO CD and I can say it is quite good, both recording and performance.

[Scion7]

"twirbling" - 

Is this some slang from the great unwashed masses?

[Maestro267]

...are...you OK? Changing the Lyatoshynsky title, complaining about this one, having a little go at me in the Lajtha thread...

[kyjo]

Has anyone heard this cpo collection of chamber music with piano?

Seems well-regarded. I recently got this excellent recording of Piano Quintet + Piano Trio

 and the cpo seems like a good way to get the Piano Quartet with some (not unwelcome) duplication.

The CPO recording of the Piano Quartet is the finest available, to my ears. It’s worth getting the set just for that. A brief side-by-side comparison of the two recordings of the Quintet revealed the DG one as superior, though the CPO is by no means poor at all.

[T. D.]

The CPO recording of the Piano Quartet is the finest available, to my ears. It’s worth getting the set just for that. A brief side-by-side comparison of the two recordings of the Quintet revealed the DG one as superior, though the CPO is by no means poor at all.

Thank you. The highlighted (emphasis added) sentence is exactly what it boils down to.

[OrchestralNut]

Listening to this marvelous disc for the third time (since yesterday).  Hint, hint - There are a few free ones for grab (just shipping) in the Buy, Sell, Swap thread.    I have my own copy that just arrived.

This completes the 5 disc volume of the Carpe Diem String Quartet recordings of the Taneyev string quartets.  Just a superb endeavour.  This volume 5 disc includes the 8th string quartet and the second string quintet.

I also have the Taneyev Quartet recordings on the Northern Flowers label.  From the 1970's.  They are wonderful performances indeed, but the recorded sound isn't great, compared to the wonderfully recorded Naxos Carpe Diem set.

[OrchestralNut]

The Taneyev Quartet recordings are certainly not perfect, but imo they are far ahead of the Carpe Diem recordings in terms of quality. The Taneyevs bring to everything they play a great sense of style, a very lived-in quality, and frequent intonation problems; the Carpe Diems are somewhat more technically secure individually, but the ensemble doesn't sound as good together & the performances do sound slightly unidiomatic when compared to the Taneyevs (although not in isolation).

You seem to have the same opinion in the Taneyev vs. Carpe Diem discussion as Don (Bulldog/Sammy) had regarding the two sets.  I have both and am quite torn as to which I actually prefer.  I think the Carpe Diem is a lot higher quality of a performance than what you make of it, but I do agree that perhaps the Taneyev SQ performances are a little more idiomatic (Russian blooded sounding).  However, the sound quality of the Taneyev SQ set is definitely a detriment.  I honestly wouldn't want to be without either set and happy to have both. 

[Cato]

You seem to have the same opinion in the Taneyev vs. Carpe Diem discussion as Don (Bulldog/Sammy) had regarding the two sets.  I have both and am quite torn as to which I actually prefer.  I think the Carpe Diem is a lot higher quality of a performance than what you make of it, but I do agree that perhaps the Taneyev SQ performances are a little more idiomatic (Russian blooded sounding).  However, the sound quality of the Taneyev SQ set is definitely a detriment.  I honestly wouldn't want to be without either set and happy to have both. 

Amen!  Mentioned earlier, the Taneyev S.Q. also occasionally has lapses in intonation, of which two seemed to veer into territory inhabited by Alois Haba!        (I do not recall the exact spots, and they are packed away right now for our future move to a new house.)    I thought perhaps it was a manufacturing issue, or that my CD player was not at the right speed.