Kennedy Center Bans Concert

[Todd]

The "I don't want X funded with my tax dollars" argument leads to the situation were EVERYTHING is opposed, because there are opponents for everything.

True and false.  One can find opponents for every type of federal spending, but I do not personally oppose every type of federal spending.  Support or opposition of spending does not lead the outcome you describe.  Society as a whole, in a democratic republic, elects leaders who change priorities over time.  That is how it is supposed to be.  Not every program should exist forever.

I wonder what things in your opinion should be funded federally if not art?

All sorts of things.  Since this thread is about an arts institution and by extension arts spending, I will stick to that, and I see no role for the federal government in those domains.  I recognize that the federal government has a role in practice, but it has been decreased this year and hopefully will be reduced further.  Total elimination of all federal spending on the arts would be ideal, but idealism leads nowhere.  I gleefully embrace every cut and hope for more.  I begrudgingly accept that increases will occur in the future.  I hold out hopes for cuts again further in the future.  There is no end point. 

[Florestan]

The "I don't want X funded with my tax dollars" argument leads to the situation were EVERYTHING is opposed, because there are opponents for everything. I'm fine with my tax money going to things I don't care about, because that means other people fund things I care about. The society is not only for you or me. It is for everyone, and being too selfish hurts everyone in the end.

This.

Why should an illiterate taxpayer's money fund a public library?

First, because one day they might become themselves literate (and if this happens, it will usually be by publicly funded education).

Second, because even if they remain illiterate all their life, a society where most people are literate is most likely to be a civilized one, therefore benefiting the illiterates as well as the literates.

Thirdly, because all this "I earned my money by my own hard work and owe nothing to society" ideology is claptrap. Every "self-made man" made themselves precisely in a society which usually values individuality, hard work, entrepreneurship and innovation, where science and technology were already present and developed (long) before the "self-made men" were born and which is more often than not a liberal democracy where rule of law and liberty, including economic liberty, are upheld and maintained at no inconsiderable cost. I wonder what Bill Gates would have achieved had he been born in Afghanistan.

[Todd]

Why should an illiterate taxpayer's money fund a public library?

No assertion was made that illiterate people's tax money, to the extent such people earn enough to pay direct taxes, should not be used to fund a library.  In the US, the argument is about which level of government should levy the taxes and spend the money.  That withstands this argument in its entirety.

I wonder what Bill Gates would have achieved had he been born in Afghanistan.

Bill Gates could have been born only when he was, where he was, to his two parents.  That's how sexual reproduction works.  You presented a counterfactual fallacy.  Afghanistan has not produced an equivalent of a Bill Gates and is unlikely to do so for at least thirty years.  I suspect it may take longer.

[Florestan]

Afghanistan has not produced an equivalent of a Bill Gates and is unlikely to do so for at least thirty years.  I suspect it may take longer.

Why?

[Todd]

Why?

That is an unserious question, and of course as with the prior mention of Afghanistan, it has nothing to do with arts funding in the US, and the governmental level of taxation and expenditure used on US public goods.  If you are genuinely curious about why such an outcome is likely in Afghanistan in the next thirty or more years, you can start by reading UN reports on the topic of Afghanistan's humanitarian needs.  Here's one with an additional helpful link: https://www.unocha.org/publications/report/afghanistan/afghanistan-humanitarian-needs-and-response-plan-2026-december-2025

[Florestan]

That is an unserious question, and of course as with the prior mention of Afghanistan, it has nothing to do with arts funding in the US, and the governmental level of taxation and expenditure used on US public goods.  If you are genuinely curious about why such an outcome is likely in Afghanistan in the next thirty or more years, you can start by reading UN reports on the topic of Afghanistan's humanitarian needs.  Here's one with an additional helpful link: https://www.unocha.org/publications/report/afghanistan/afghanistan-humanitarian-needs-and-response-plan-2026-december-2025

Which is an oblique way of acknowledging that I am right. USA is a country which spends a whole lot of money on upholding and maintaining a rule-of-law state and a scientifically-technologically-based society, while Afghanistan cannot even meet the basic needs their population. Ergo, the "self-made-men" of USA are heavily indebted to the USA government and society, without whose taxes and expenditures they'd be just a little better than the average Afghan.

[Todd]

Which is an oblique way of acknowledging that I am right.

Incorrect.

USA is a country which spends a whole lot of money on upholding and maintaining a rule-of-law state and a scientifically-technologically-based society, while Afghanistan cannot even meet the basic needs their population. Ergo, the "self-made-men" of USA are heavily indebted to the USA government and society, without whose taxes and expenditures they'd be just a little better than the average Afghan.

You did not present an objectively grounded or logical argument in any regard.  The introduction of "self-made-men" is also a red herring that addresses assertions no one made.

[Mandryka]

Bill Gates could have been born only when he was, where he was, to his two parents.  That's how sexual reproduction works.  You presented a counterfactual fallacy.   

Have you come across Saul Kripke?

https://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil375/Kripke1.pdf

[Florestan]

You did not present an objectively grounded or logical argument

Incorrect.

in any regard.

That the regard I made my argument in is not to your liking is immaterial.

[Todd]

Have you come across Saul Kripke?

No.

Incorrect.

That the regard I made my argument in is not to your liking is immaterial.

OK.

[Florestan]

OK.

I agree.

[arpeggio]

Over the years I have seen many debates in various classical music forums on whether or not governments should subsidize the arts.
In over fifteen years I have never seen an instance where anyone has succeeded in changing anyone's mind.
Such debates are exercises in futility.
I hope we can avoid going down this path in this thread.

[Madiel]

Which is an oblique way of acknowledging that I am right. USA is a country which spends a whole lot of money on upholding and maintaining a rule-of-law state and a scientifically-technologically-based society, while Afghanistan cannot even meet the basic needs their population. Ergo, the "self-made-men" of USA are heavily indebted to the USA government and society, without whose taxes and expenditures they'd be just a little better than the average Afghan.

You also don't get a lot of concert pianists coming out of Afghanistan.

Our diet of recorded music comes from countries where the environment is conducive to spending time and resources on recorded music.

I completely agree with you that governments play a big role in making this possible.

[arpeggio]

Kenndy Center Board changed bylaws to make easier for them to change the name:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kennedy-center-altered-rules-so-only-trump-appointed-board-members-could-vote-on-name-change/ar-AA1TlSoG?ocid=BingNewsSerp

[arpeggio]

Another artist walks out:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kennedy-center-tension-grows-as-singer-criticizes-trump-s-ego/ar-AA1TojvR?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=69566e5664ce4582ac033333d65a73fc&ei=29

[Todd]

Another artist walks out:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kennedy-center-tension-grows-as-singer-criticizes-trump-s-ego/ar-AA1TojvR?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=69566e5664ce4582ac033333d65a73fc&ei=29

More good news.  Every artist associated with the Kennedy Center in any way should make a New Year's resolution to never perform there again, or at least for the next three years.

[Madiel]

Kenndy Center Board changed bylaws to make easier for them to change the name:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kennedy-center-altered-rules-so-only-trump-appointed-board-members-could-vote-on-name-change/ar-AA1TlSoG?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Well that's just wild.

[arpeggio]

Link to a video of an interview of the director of a dance company that pulled out of performing at the Kennedy Center:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/dance-company-director-speaks-out-on-canceling-kennedy-center-shows/vi-AA1TtXQu?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=6958a3f112e4416ea8bbb74cefe0a946&ei=15

[arpeggio]

I know this is off topic but it is funny.
Maybe our English friends can confirm this.
I have read that "trump" is slang in England for breaking wind.

[Brian]

It is listed in this excellent British slang database with the etymology coming from "trumpet." There's also "trumpton" meaning the fire department.