Thoughts on Improvisation in Classical Music

[Opus131]

Here's some improvised music (by Thierry Escaich) I can't see what your problem is myself -- it seems like pretty good classical music to me.

That's very good actually, and i can easily see how much of Liszt music came into being like this.

That said, i'm not entirely sure anyone could come up with the Appassionata or the Hammerklavier through improvisation alone.

BTW, this video brings to light one issue when comparing jazz and classic: that the distinction isn't just about composition versus improvisation, since jazz is a different style with a different aesthetic.

[Florestan]

If i'm listen to Beethoven i want to listen to Beethoven i'm sorry.

The problem is, you cannot listen to Beethoven's music in any other way than by the mediation of performers --- therefore you will never listen to Beethoven but to what different performers make of its music. And since no two performers play it alike, there are as many "Beethovens" as there are performers. The only way to listen to Beethoven is to hop on a time machine and hear the man himself playing his music --- and even so I'm willing to bet 10 to 1 that he took liberties with his own scores, and in this case what was truly Beethoven, the score or its performance?

[Mandryka]

Also Beethoven wrote  in a medium which hardly determines what the music sounds like. Practically nothing in a conventional score is determinate other than relative pitch. So the model whereby Beethoven had a clear sound idea in his head which he then specified is not right.

A better model is to see the score as a set of suggestions for the performers to turn into music. 

[Opus131]

Well i was talking about the idea classical performers should "improvise" while playing compositions written by somebody else.

An interpretation is not the same as an improvisation. Sure sometimes performers can get pretty radical in their interpretations (*cough* Glenn Gould *cough*) but the notes themselves are still the same.

[Florestan]

Sure sometimes performers can get pretty radical in their interpretations (*cough* Glenn Gould *cough*) but the notes themselves are still the same.

Or not, as in the case of Liszt and Cortot.