Author Topic: The Snowshoed Sibelius  (Read 345492 times)

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Offline vandermolen

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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Brian

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2761 on: April 07, 2021, 11:53:47 AM »
There's at least a minute-long chunk of the Eighth available on YouTube.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2762 on: April 07, 2021, 01:32:13 PM »
There's at least a minute-long chunk of the Eighth available on YouTube.
I've just watched it - not too sure what to make of it really.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2763 on: April 07, 2021, 01:35:47 PM »
'Fragments of Symphony No.8'  :o :o

Don’t get two excited there, Jeffrey. It’s nothing substantial. These were included in the Sibelius Edition on BIS and, honestly, they weren’t anything noteworthy. Anyway, this new set looks interesting. The problem nowadays as with so many other composers is that Sibelius has been so well-served on disc that it’d be difficult to top Berglund, Vänskä, Karajan or Segerstam in my mind. Bernstein and Barbirolli were also quite good, IMHO. So these performances had better be interpretatively different and drastically so for me to actually buy the set. Anyway, this is just my own perspective about upcoming Sibelius recordings in general.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 01:37:29 PM by Mirror Image »
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline Biffo

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2764 on: April 08, 2021, 02:56:15 AM »
John Storgards and the BBC Philharmonic recorded 'Three late fragments'. The booklet notes say it is not certain they are sketches for the 8th Symphony but it is possible. They total just 2'48 and I don't recall them being particularly interesting. Presumably they are the same fragments mentioned above.

Offline relm1

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2765 on: April 08, 2021, 04:41:09 AM »
I'm really surprised more of the 8th hasn't been found.  Even if he burned his manuscript(s), he was working with a copyist who would have done some preparation of it into a readable version and didn't he send parts of it to Koussevitzky?  Then later deemed it not ready and kept working on it.  I'm just surprised all we have in under 3 minutes of it.  Perhaps it is still out there somewhere, just not named, or in a pile of pages no one knows what to do with.

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2766 on: April 08, 2021, 05:36:01 AM »
I'm really surprised more of the 8th hasn't been found.  Even if he burned his manuscript(s), he was working with a copyist who would have done some preparation of it into a readable version and didn't he send parts of it to Koussevitzky?  Then later deemed it not ready and kept working on it.  I'm just surprised all we have in under 3 minutes of it.  Perhaps it is still out there somewhere, just not named, or in a pile of pages no one knows what to do with.
Perhaps they'll find more of it amongst Koussevitzky's things?  One can hope.... :)

PD

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2767 on: April 08, 2021, 06:33:35 AM »
Don’t get two excited there, Jeffrey. It’s nothing substantial. These were included in the Sibelius Edition on BIS and, honestly, they weren’t anything noteworthy. Anyway, this new set looks interesting. The problem nowadays as with so many other composers is that Sibelius has been so well-served on disc that it’d be difficult to top Berglund, Vänskä, Karajan or Segerstam in my mind. Bernstein and Barbirolli were also quite good, IMHO. So these performances had better be interpretatively different and drastically so for me to actually buy the set. Anyway, this is just my own perspective about upcoming Sibelius recordings in general.

+1 about all you say.  I find I have a kind buyer's twitch when I think  "oh that looks interesting I might get that" followed swiftly by the thought it'd be something like my 16th Sibelius cycle - and nearly all the other 15 are pretty good anyway..........  but then 16 is a nice round number........

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2768 on: April 08, 2021, 06:35:01 AM »
+1 about all you say.  I find I have a kind buyer's twitch when I think  "oh that looks interesting I might get that" followed swiftly by the thought it'd be something like my 16th Sibelius cycle - and nearly all the other 15 are pretty good anyway..........  but then 16 is a nice round number........
Go for it!  >:D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2769 on: April 08, 2021, 07:01:31 AM »
Go for it!  >:D

oh all right then................. well I never said I was strong-willed..............

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2770 on: April 08, 2021, 06:34:16 PM »
+1 about all you say.  I find I have a kind buyer's twitch when I think  "oh that looks interesting I might get that" followed swiftly by the thought it'd be something like my 16th Sibelius cycle - and nearly all the other 15 are pretty good anyway..........  but then 16 is a nice round number........

Yes and like you, I just own too many cycles with several of them being in the only ‘okay’ category and not worth revisiting. I think I’ve finally reached that point in my own collecting where I have been able to put my foot down for once and say “I doubt this new recording will better any of my already established favorites.” Of course, there are some surprises here and there like Dausgaard’s recording of Kullervo for example. I was very surprised by just how good it was and how different it sounded to so many of the other performances I’ve heard. The Berglund/Bournemouth remains my favorite but this Dausgaard is in a very close second-place.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 06:36:19 PM by Mirror Image »
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline Biffo

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2771 on: April 08, 2021, 11:14:20 PM »
+1 about all you say.  I find I have a kind buyer's twitch when I think  "oh that looks interesting I might get that" followed swiftly by the thought it'd be something like my 16th Sibelius cycle - and nearly all the other 15 are pretty good anyway..........  but then 16 is a nice round number........

Sixteen Sibelius cycles would be madness, stick at fifteen, a sensible number. I have fifteen complete cycles but that is only part of the story; I have numerous other recordings of individual symphonies (and part cycles) including five recordings of No 2 by Barbirolli.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2772 on: April 09, 2021, 01:20:48 AM »
Sixteen Sibelius cycles would be madness, stick at fifteen, a sensible number. I have fifteen complete cycles but that is only part of the story; I have numerous other recordings of individual symphonies (and part cycles) including five recordings of No 2 by Barbirolli.
This has set me thinking on how many cycles I have:
Barbirolli
Maazel
Collins
Berglund x2
'Historic Performances' (Kajanus/Beecham etc)
Abravanel
Rattle
Ehrling (very good)
Rozhdestvensky
Sanderling
Ashkenazy
Segerstam
Colin Davis (RCA)
Karajan/Kamu
Gibson

That makes 16 although I gave Ashkenazy, Gibson and Sanderling away to friends.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 01:23:02 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Biffo

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2773 on: April 09, 2021, 01:58:19 AM »
This has set me thinking on how many cycles I have:
Barbirolli
Maazel
Collins
Berglund x2
'Historic Performances' (Kajanus/Beecham etc)
Abravanel
Rattle
Ehrling (very good)
Rozhdestvensky
Sanderling
Ashkenazy
Segerstam
Colin Davis (RCA)
Karajan/Kamu
Gibson

That makes 16 although I gave Ashkenazy, Gibson and Sanderling away to friends.

There is some overlap with mine (not surprising) -

Barbirolli
Berglund x 3
Ashkenazy
Srorgards
Gibson
Kamu/Lahti
Vanska/Lahti
Oramo/CBSO
Davis/Boston SO
Davis/LSO (RCA)
Bernstein/NYPO
Elder
Maazel

I have Rattle in Nos 1,3,5 & 7, also a mixture of Karajan's EMI and DG recordings (for some reason he never recorded No 3).

Edit: I also have Collins/LSO - don't know how I missed it, my first ever No 5 was from that cycle, a Decca Ace of Clubs LP
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 04:05:03 AM by Biffo »

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2774 on: April 09, 2021, 03:50:35 AM »
Complete cycles of mine:

Bernstein/NY
Berglund/Bournemouth
Rozhdestvensky
Davis/Boston
Vanska/Lahti
Ashkenazy/decca
Gibson

Fragments of cycles:
Collins

Also:
all Karajan's stereo

Skipped:
Abravanel
Sanderling
Maazel/decca

Plus various single recordings,
for example Barbirolli (early), Celibidache, Beecham, Kamu, Ormandy (early), Dorati.

I guess what is mainly lacking is a recent series with cinemascope sound picture (Segerstam/Chandos?), but I don't plan buying more.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 03:59:59 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline Biffo

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2775 on: April 09, 2021, 04:11:35 AM »
Complete cycles of mine:

Bernstein/NY
Berglund/Bournemouth
Rozhdestvensky
Davis/Boston
Vanska/Lahti
Ashkenazy/decca
Gibson

Fragments of cycles:
Collins

Also:
all Karajan's stereo

Skipped:
Abravanel
Sanderling
Maazel/decca

Plus various single recordings,
for example Barbirolli (early), Celibidache, Beecham, Kamu, Ormandy (early), Dorati.

I guess what is mainly lacking is a recent series with cinemascope sound picture (Segerstam/Chandos?), but I don't plan buying more.

Vanska/Minnesota might fill the bill but as you already have his Lahti SO cycle you might find it redundant, especially as you don't plan buying any more

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2776 on: April 09, 2021, 04:14:27 AM »
Vanska/Minnesota might fill the bill but as you already have his Lahti SO cycle you might find it redundant, especially as you don't plan buying any more

Well, I don't tend to be a fan of Vanska's style generally (not his Beethoven either, for example), but haven't heard any of that Minnesota cycle ...

Offline OrchestralNut

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2777 on: April 09, 2021, 04:17:57 AM »
I only have 3 complete sets:

Maazel/Vienna

Maazel/Pittsburgh

Jarvi/Gothenburg - DG

I really only listen to Maazel/Vienna, as that is by far my favourite. The Jarvi is ok. The Maazel/Pittsburgh I don't like much at all, it has been a big disappointment for me.

Offline aukhawk

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2778 on: April 09, 2021, 04:20:37 AM »
Vanska/Minnesota might fill the bill but as you already have his Lahti SO cycle you might find it redundant, especially as you don't plan buying any more

Rattle/BPO would offer more point of difference.

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: The Snowshoed Sibelius
« Reply #2779 on: April 09, 2021, 04:38:39 AM »
I only have 3 complete sets:

Maazel/Vienna

Maazel/Pittsburgh

Jarvi/Gothenburg - DG

I really only listen to Maazel/Vienna, as that is by far my favourite. The Jarvi is ok. The Maazel/Pittsburgh I don't like much at all, it has been a big disappointment for me.

I really like Jarvi/DG in the other orchestral works, including the Lemminkainen Suite, but it seems to be a somewhat minority opinion. I have a bit of his BIS. Haven't heard the DG symphonies.