The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Brian on February 23, 2022, 06:46:50 PM
Also enthusiastic fan of Szell in Tokyo and many of the recordings in that Ormandy box. Maybe soon I'll go through the Ormandy again to make more detailed comments, but that big classic Philly string sound has an epic sweep that fits with more "romantic" interpretations.
Loved that sound growing up!  ;D

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Symphonic Addict

Something that fascinates me about Sibelius is how he manages to not be bombastic, too pompous or loud with lots of woodwinds, percussion and brass in virtually all of his works.

By listening to the 6th Symphony I admit it has moved me deeply. This great gentleman does touch your soul, at least for me it does.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

vandermolen

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on February 26, 2022, 06:19:10 PM
Something that fascinates me about Sibelius is how he manages to not be bombastic, too pompous or loud with lots of woodwinds, percussion and brass in virtually all of his works.

By listening to the 6th Symphony I admit it has moved me deeply. This great gentleman does touch your soul, at least for me it does.
It's arguably his finest symphony. VW thought v highly of it in particular.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: vandermolen on February 26, 2022, 11:00:06 PM
It's arguably his finest symphony. VW thought v highly of it in particular.

No wonder why, Jeffrey. A unique creation. VW's 5th is the one I feel with more connection between both symphonies. I couldn't live without any of their symphonies.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Madiel

Few things are better at keeping me up well past my bedtime than puzzling through Sibelius' opus numbers...

This time it was the works for choir. He chopped and changed which songs counted a heck of a lot. At one stage op.18 didn't have 6 songs, it had 10. Opus 65 had 4 songs rather than 2. And so on and so forth.

And this is all just so I can then consider options for albums that cover the worthwhile songs, possibly without all the arrangements and preliminary versions and exercises that make the BIS box 6 discs rather than 2 or 3.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

TheGSMoeller

Question for the Snowshoed forum:
With the exception of the seven numbered symphonies...

What is the best orchestral work by Sibelius? And why is it The Wood Nymph? 

Jo498

Never heard the Wood Nymph.
My candidates for the best non-symphony would be Tapiola, Okeanides and Luonnotar. Despite the soprano the latter seems usually to be counted as "symphonic poem" and I think it is one of the most haunting and original of them (obviously to a considerable extent because of the soprano...). Okeanides shows a more colorful, impressionist side of Sibelius that is mostly absent from the more austere (later) symphonies.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mirror Image

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 24, 2022, 06:47:10 AM
Question for the Snowshoed forum:
With the exception of the seven numbered symphonies...

What is the best orchestral work by Sibelius? And why is it The Wood Nymph?

For me, it would be difficult to narrow it down to only one, because these works inhabit such individual musical worlds, but The Oceanides and Night Ride & Sunrise get my votes. I feel that the latter is incredibly underrated in particular. One of the reasons is because it's a difficult work to pull off. It has an almost minimalist approach, especially in what I think is a scene with a man (or woman) on horseback riding through a forest at night. The "sunrise" part is beautiful and is naturally the section which would impress most people I would think, but in order to get there, a conductor has to make that journey on horseback feel exciting. One of the performances that truly nails this for me is Segerstam with the Helsinki Philharmonic on Ondine. Another one is Alexander Gibson with Scottish National Orchestra on Chandos. These two performances are favorites and I think they're able to capture the atmosphere of this oft-misunderstood work. The Oceanides is much more convincing in terms of hooking a listener as it feels rather Impressionistic, but with Sibelius' orchestration, everything is crystal clear. It's a unique sound-world and a piece that drew me in immediately --- like a strong undercurrent I was pulled into it. Again, Segerstam/Helsinki on Ondine are incredible in this work, but I also like Vänskä on BIS. Anyway, I just couldn't pick one work, because Sibelius wrote so many masterpieces.

Ganondorf

#3168
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 24, 2022, 06:47:10 AM
Question for the Snowshoed forum:
With the exception of the seven numbered symphonies...

What is the best orchestral work by Sibelius? And why is it The Wood Nymph?

Pohjola's daughter and Luonnotar. In fact in my opinion Sibelius' symphonic poems are even better than his symphonies.

Mirror Image

#3169
Quote from: Ganondorf on May 24, 2022, 09:17:54 AM
Pohjola's daughter and Luonnotar. In fact, in my opinion, Sibelius' symphonic poems are even better than his symphonies.

I'll respectfully disagree in that I believe the aim of both the symphony and tone poem were quite different, especially for Sibelius. There are some instances where the lines were a bit blurred like, for example, Kullervo and Lemminkäinen Suite, but he developed an individual sound-world for both the symphony and tone poem. I personally wouldn't say one is "better" than the other only because they are both extraordinary in their own way, especially the way Sibelius wrote for them.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 24, 2022, 06:47:10 AM
Question for the Snowshoed forum:
With the exception of the seven numbered symphonies...

What is the best orchestral work by Sibelius? And why is it The Wood Nymph?

The Wood Nymph is terrific! I wonder why it's not more widely recorded. Of his early works it's clearly my favorite, and I prefer it to En Saga.

Along with The Wood Nymph, Lemminkäinen Suite and Tapiola represent Sibelius in his most atmospheric. Unquestionable masterpieces.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

LKB

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 24, 2022, 06:47:10 AM
Question for the Snowshoed forum:
With the exception of the seven numbered symphonies...

What is the best orchestral work by Sibelius? And why is it The Wood Nymph?

Thank you, l got a few looks at the restaurant while l was laughing but it was totally worth it. 👌
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

foxandpeng

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 24, 2022, 07:03:27 AM
For me, it would be difficult to narrow it down to only one, because these works inhabit such individual musical worlds, but The Oceanides and Night Ride & Sunrise get my votes. I feel that the latter is incredibly underrated in particular. One of the reasons is because it's a difficult work to pull off. It has an almost minimalist approach, especially in what I think is a scene with a man (or woman) on horseback riding through a forest at night. The "sunrise" part is beautiful and is naturally the section which would impress most people I would think, but in order to get there, a conductor has to make that journey on horseback feel exciting. One of the performances that truly nails this for me is Segerstam with the Helsinki Philharmonic on Ondine. Another one is Alexander Gibson with Scottish National Orchestra on Chandos. These two performances are favorites and I think they're able to capture the atmosphere of this oft-misunderstood work. The Oceanides is much more convincing in terms of hooking a listener as it feels rather Impressionistic, but with Sibelius' orchestration, everything is crystal clear. It's a unique sound-world and a piece that drew me in immediately --- like a strong undercurrent I was pulled into it. Again, Segerstam/Helsinki on Ondine are incredible in this work, but I also like Vänskä on BIS. Anyway, I just couldn't pick one work, because Sibelius wrote so many masterpieces.

Yes. Mostly this. Segerstam, Vänskä, plus The Wood Nymph.
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

Madiel

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 24, 2022, 06:47:10 AM
Question for the Snowshoed forum:
With the exception of the seven numbered symphonies...

What is the best orchestral work by Sibelius? And why is it The Wood Nymph?

The Wood Nymph's central 'ride through the forest' section is utterly awesome, I know that much. But I really do have to go back and get to know some of the other works better.

Also, do you know the version of the Wood Nymph with narration? It actually helped me understand the instrumental version better.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Madiel on May 24, 2022, 09:11:27 PM
The Wood Nymph's central 'ride through the forest' section is utterly awesome, I know that much. But I really do have to go back and get to know some of the other works better.

Also, do you know the version of the Wood Nymph with narration? It actually helped me understand the instrumental version better.


This one has the narration...


TheGSMoeller

Quote from: LKB on May 24, 2022, 12:36:48 PM
Thank you, l got a few looks at the restaurant while l was laughing but it was totally worth it. 👌

;)

TheGSMoeller

My performance of choice for Wood Nymph is John Storgårds and the Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra. Mainly for the fourth and final section. The tempo for this section is very broad, much broader than the Vanska, which only enhances the grief the music is interpreting. I also like how the final chord fades away which is different from Vanska's, more than likely a result of using a newer critical edition. 



foxandpeng

#3177
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 25, 2022, 04:04:19 AM
My performance of choice for Wood Nymph is John Storgårds and the Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra. Mainly for the fourth and final section. The tempo for this section is very broad, much broader than the Vanska, which only enhances the grief the music is interpreting. I also like how the final chord fades away which is different from Vanska's, more than likely a result of using a newer critical edition. 




Listening now. Storgårds is always excellent, and here is no different.

Edit: Having listened back to back, I think I actually prefer this performance to the Vanska version in the Sibelius Edition. Brighter brass sound from the onset and as you say, his tempo is about 3 minutes longer. 

I very much like Storgårds in Sibelius, even though his symphony cycle had some mixed reviews. I appreciate I'm sometimes alone in my likes, however.
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

Mirror Image

Quote from: foxandpeng on May 25, 2022, 04:16:03 AM
Listening now. Storgårds is always excellent, and here is no different.

Edit: Having listened back to back, I think I actually prefer this performance to the Vanska version in the Sibelius Edition. Brighter brass sound from the onset and as you say, his tempo is about 3 minutes longer. 

I very much like Storgårds in Sibelius, even though his symphony cycle had some mixed reviews. I appreciate I'm sometimes alone in my likes, however.

It's alright as I prefer the Vänskä as well. Storgårds is a good conductor, but he's not a master Sibelian like Vänskä is IMHO.

Mirror Image

#3179
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 25, 2022, 03:55:11 AM

This one has the narration...



This is just an aside, but I love the John Bauer illustration. I have a whole book of his illustrations that accompany Swedish fairy tales. Great stuff.

Some other favorite illustrations from Bauer: