The Snowshoed Sibelius

[Jo498]

The guy apparently has also done a survey of some other Sibelius orchestral music but this is behind some pay/registration wall or so.

I can understand the focus on recording/performing mainly the symphonies to some extent. I find the symphonic poems and theatre music/suites far less consistent. Some of this is about as good as the symphonies (e.g. Tapiola), other pieces are worthwhile but some are also rather forgettable. I am neither an expert nor Sibelius's greatest fan but what I have heard of his lesser known works overall largely justifies the focus of most musicians and audiences on the well known stuff.

[Madiel]

It's not just the symphonic poems, there are some real finds among the vocal music I think. The Rapid Riders' Brides, Snofrid and The Origin of Fire all struck me as very good works.

[Jo498]

I have to admit I have not heard any of these choral works (and was only dimly aware of their existence). The very genre has a difficult time to become popular, probably connected to the logistics and costs, and in the case of Sibelius maybe also the language.

[aukhawk]

Is language a barrier in Wagner??  Partly - insofar as it takes the performers 10x longer to sing the words than it takes me to read the subtitles, leaving me in a perpetual state of "Oh get on with it" 

Not sure if this has been linked here. A fanfare review by Richard Kaplan that was available at some other sites as well:
http://www.classicalmusicguide.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=27007#p269024

That was a really interesting read, thankou for posting.  I loved his point about the correlation between Sibelius appreciation and geographical latitude.  Though I don't know how well that really stacks up as the writer himself identifies with Philadelphia which in European terms lies south of Madrid.
Of course several other full cycles have appeared since that list was compiled - notably a 4th by Berglund, a 3rd by Davis, 2nd ones by Ashkenazy and by Rattle and by Vanska, a full cycle by Kamu/Lahti SO, plus Inkinen, Paavo Jarvi, and no doubt others I've overlooked.

I list below my favourite recordings for Symphonies 4-7.  Although in general terms I definitely prefer to hear Sibelius performed with some Finnish or Scandinavian accent - conductor or orchestra or both - this list is notable for diverging from that ideal.  In fact, having compiled it, I am myself rather shocked by it!

4th: (slow is good, these two are among the very slowest)
Vanska/Lahti SO/BIS
Karajan/BPO/Warner

5th: (happy to wallow in 'opulent' here)
Bernstein/VPO/DG
Levine/BPO/DG
Segerstam/DNRSO/Chandos
plus a big shout for the Original Version - quite different, almost like another symphony - Vanska/Lahti

6th: (still looking for my ideal - Inkinen is in the mail - in this most delicate and cool music)
Karajan/BPO/DG
Berglund/COE/Finlandia

7th: (again opulent works for me but I will hedge my bets)
Karajan/BPO/DG
Magi/Uppsala CO
Bernstein/VPO/DG

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Of course several other full cycles have appeared since that list was compiled - notably a 4th by Berglund,

Whoppawhoppawhaaat? There's a Fourth one, really? Which one am I missing, if I only know of Bournemouth ("I"), Helsinki ("II"), and COE ("III")?

[André]

Is language a barrier in Wagner??  Partly - insofar as it takes the performers 10x longer to sing the words than it takes me to read the subtitles, leaving me in a perpetual state of "Oh get on with it" 

Not always... check this:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YKE5B-AryD8

[Jo498]

Is language a barrier in Wagner??  Partly - insofar as it takes the performers 10x longer to sing the words than it takes me to read the subtitles, leaving me in a perpetual state of "Oh get on with it" 

It probably is another reason why German (and also most French opera, but this used to be different) is internationally considerably less popular than Italian Opera. But I was thinking of non-operatic works and most post-classical choral-orchestral works are not all that popular, so Brahms' Schicksalslied oder Schumann's Paradies und die Peri don't fare so much better than these choral works by Sibelius.

That was a really interesting read, thankou for posting.  I loved his point about the correlation between Sibelius appreciation and geographical latitude.  Though I don't know how well that really stacks up as the writer himself identifies with Philadelphia which in European terms lies south of Madrid.
Of course several other full cycles have appeared since that list was compiled - notably a 4th by Berglund, a 3rd by Davis, 2nd ones by Ashkenazy and by Rattle, a full cycle by Kamu/Lahti SO, plus Inkinen, Paavo Jarvi, and no doubt others I've overlooked.

Although I am still not a huge fan of the composer, Kaplan's overview persuaded me to get the Ormandy CBS 2+7, Bernstein CBS 4-7 as well as the Karajan DG 4-7 and also the latter's mono EMI of 6+7. Together with the Decca Ashkenazy, half of Davis/Boston and a few more single discs that's plenty for me.

[Roasted Swan]

Whoppawhoppawhaaat? There's a Fourth one, really? Which one am I missing, if I only know of Bournemouth ("I"), Helsinki ("II"), and COE ("III")?

The "Berglund 4th cycle" comment rather jumped out at me too!  The Gramophone obit of Berglund from 2012 mentions the 3 cycles and references the COE/Finlandia cycle as one of his last recordings and Wiki says 3 cycles too......

[calyptorhynchus]

Is language a barrier in Wagner??  Partly - insofar as it takes the performers 10x longer to sing the words than it takes me to read the subtitles, leaving me in a perpetual state of "Oh get on with it" 

LOL, I know just what you mean, when I was young my parent used to watch Italian/French opera on the TV and the singers would be warbling away for hours with the subtitle stuck on "No", or something very succinct.

And as for Wagner, sometimes in the depths of the Ring I often find myself thinking "I know it's mythical times and everything and you don't have get washing in or answer the phone, but couldn't you sing a bit faster, or have fewer words?"

[Madiel]

Choral works have suffered a decline in popularity simply because choral singing is not something we all generally do anymore. People like Schumann and Brahms composed in a culture where belonging to a choir was an extremely common thing.

Choral works with orchestra have suffered even more because of the extra difficulty of putting a choir and orchestra together.

But this is the moment where I point out I said vocal music, not choral, and one of the works I mentioned is not choral.

[aukhawk]

Yes I was mistaken about Berglund, his 4th cycle (LPO Live) was incomplete missing 1,3 and 4.  My post upthread edited for that and to include Vanska's 2nd cycle.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Yes I was mistaken about Berglund, his 4th cycle (LPO Live) was incomplete missing 1,3 and 4.  My post upthread edited for that and to include Vanska's 2nd cycle.

I should not have been QUITE so surprised, either: It's right there, in my survey: "I have not (yet?) added Paavo Berglund's Sibelius recordings with the LPO, although arguably they are as much an incomplete cycle as Bernstein's Vienna one, with four symphonies. You can find it here; it would have been his 4th." 

[amw]

I have 4 or 5 full cycles I believe plus some individual recordings.

Overall favourites:
No.1 - Mägi and the Uppsala band
No.2 - n/a, maybe Bernstein and the NYPD
No.3 - Mustonen and some Helsinki schoolchildren
No.4 - Mägi again
No.5 - Berglund and the Bournemouth
No.6 - Rosbaud in Köln
No.7 - n/a

The Paavo Järvi, Blomstedt and Sanderling cycles do not make best in show for any one symphony but I also have them and enjoy them a lot (Blomstedt might be my overall recommendation if you just want one cycle) as well as Vänskä's Fifths in Lahti and Maazel's 4th and 7th which are both my second choices for those works. And Kondrashin conducting 3 and 5 in Moscow (and 5 again in Amsterdam) which are curiosities that I acquired as a Kondrashin completist. He takes 5 consistently very fast, ignoring the long pauses between the final chords for example. I guess you had to be there.

[jwinter]

I remain a huge fan of this disc:

[asin]B00000DMKY[/asin]

I've loved Sibelius for a long time, though I must confess I haven't explored too much beyond the symphonies, and I don't have any recordings of The Tempest -- I think I need to check this out. 

I currently have cycles from Ashkenazy, Bernstein NYPO, Blomstedt, Davis BSO, Maazel WP, Segerstam Helsinki, and the combined DG set from Kamu and Karajan, plus a few singles.  Between them they cover most of the tone poems, etc.  For the lovely violin concerto I have Hahn, Heifetz, Kremer, Lin, and Mutter.

If I had to pick a favorite Sibelius recording, I'd probably go with Szell's 2nd (no surprise from me).  I'm pretty content with the above list recording-wise, which I've had for years, though I'm now sorely tempted to add one more and get Ormandy's incomplete set -- I'm a sucker for those old Columbia recordings with Ormandy, Szell, Bernstein, and Walter... Anyone familiar with that set?

[Jo498]

It's a great disc. I tend to be bored by "Nightride..." regardless of interpretation but "Oceanides" is one of my favorite symphonic poems (like a nordic "La mer") and the Tempest music is probably the best of his incidental musics.

[Sergeant Rock]

I'll add my favorites to those already posted:

1 Segerstam/Helsinki
  Maazel/Vienna

2 Szell/Cleveland
  Bernstein/Vienna
  (two very different interpretations)

3 Ashkenazy/Philharmonia
  Kamu/Helsinki

4 Maazel/Vienna
  Davis/Boston (love his combination of glockenspiel and tubular bells)

5 Berglund/Bournemouth
  Rattle/Philharmonia
  Bernstein/NY Phil

6 Davis/Boston
   Maazel/Pittsburgh

7 Maazel/Vienna
   Inkinen/New Zealand


Sarge

[vandermolen]

I've loved Sibelius for a long time, though I must confess I haven't explored too much beyond the symphonies, and I don't have any recordings of The Tempest -- I think I need to check this out. 

I currently have cycles from Ashkenazy, Bernstein NYPO, Blomstedt, Davis BSO, Maazel WP, Segerstam Helsinki, and the combined DG set from Kamu and Karajan, plus a few singles.  Between them they cover most of the tone poems, etc.  For the lovely violin concerto I have Hahn, Heifetz, Kremer, Lin, and Mutter.

If I had to pick a favorite Sibelius recording, I'd probably go with Szell's 2nd (no surprise from me).  I'm pretty content with the above list recording-wise, which I've had for years, though I'm now sorely tempted to add one more and get Ormandy's incomplete set -- I'm a sucker for those old Columbia recordings with Ormandy, Szell, Bernstein, and Walter... Anyone familiar with that set?

Yes, I have the Ormandy, incomplete set. I have enjoyed it very much and have always rated him highly as a conductor. Tapiola is not as strong as  some other versions but I'd still recommend the set.

[calyptorhynchus]

I've loved Sibelius for a long time, though I must confess I haven't explored too much beyond the symphonies, and I don't have any recordings of The Tempest -- I think I need to check this out. 

If you're thinking about the Tempest consider a disk of the complete music to the play (not just the two suites). Some of the tiny pieces you get with the complete music are just music from a different dimension (and the familiar ones are put in a new context). (There are BIS and Ondine versions).

[calyptorhynchus]

Talking of opera and slowness (as we were earlier), I have just remembered something I learnt from a drama teacher at school (yes, really, I remembered something from school). She said that in spoken drama the dialogue and action would happen about 4 times as slowly as the equivalent interactions and numbers of words happening in real social situations (because of having to show the actions and interactions clearly and having to enunciate to a big space instead of just to smaller circle). Opera, she said, would be a minimum of 10 times more slowly and that would be recitative or fast non-repepitive type opera. Wagner I guess would 20-30 times slower!

[André]

For the 3rd I go for real left field choices:

Rozhdestvensky, Moscow Radio Symphony
Mustonen, Helsinki Festival Orchestra (excellent sound)
Mrawinsky, Leningrad Philharmonic.

For my money, they get the rythmic intricacies of the score better than their colleagues. In their hands the 3rd becomes one of Sibelius' boldest compositions.