The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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bhodges

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2021, 07:42:19 AM
I'll have to check this song out, Bruce. I'm sure I've heard it, but it wouldn't hurt to revisit it.

It's beautiful how Sibelius evokes the fluttering of the insect's wings (at least, to my ears). Mattila did an entire set of Sibelius songs during a concert a few years ago, and that was the first time I'd heard any of them. Of the 100 or so, I've only heard maybe 10, and all are quite beautiful.

--Bruce

Mirror Image

Quote from: Brewski on May 12, 2021, 09:27:29 AM
It's beautiful how Sibelius evokes the fluttering of the insect's wings (at least, to my ears). Mattila did an entire set of Sibelius songs during a concert a few years ago, and that was the first time I'd heard any of them. Of the 100 or so, I've only heard maybe 10, and all are quite beautiful.

--Bruce

Yep, the songs are a major part of his oeuvre or, at least, for me they are. Exquisite music.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Brewski on May 12, 2021, 09:27:29 AM
It's beautiful how Sibelius evokes the fluttering of the insect's wings (at least, to my ears). Mattila did an entire set of Sibelius songs during a concert a few years ago, and that was the first time I'd heard any of them. Of the 100 or so, I've only heard maybe 10, and all are quite beautiful.

--Bruce
Oh, cool!  Were you there at the concert?  I do so love her voice and singing.  Over the years, I've acquired about a half dozen of her CDs including her Grieg and Sibelius one (with Oramo).  I don't know that one that you've mentioned however; when did that one come out?

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Roasted Swan

The Stockholm Philharmonic are an excellent orchestra and free-stream some fantastic content.  This looks like a wonderful series - all 7 Sibelius Symphonies in order + the violin concerto live streamed from next week with Sakari Oramo on the podium.  I liked Oramo's Birmingham cycle a lot and also his live Kullervo with the BBC SO is one of the very best.....

https://www.konserthuset.se/en/programme/calendar/concert/2021/livestream-grande-finale--sibelius-with-oramo-i/20210519-1900/

https://www.konserthuset.se/en/programme/calendar/concert/2021/livestream-grande-finale--sibelius-with-oramo-ii/20210522-1500/

https://www.konserthuset.se/en/programme/calendar/concert/2021/grande-finale--sibelius-with-oramo-iii/20210526-1800/

https://www.konserthuset.se/en/programme/calendar/concert/2021/livestream-grande-finale--sibelius-with-oramo-iv/20210529-1500/




bhodges

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 12, 2021, 10:37:36 AM
Oh, cool!  Were you there at the concert?  I do so love her voice and singing.  Over the years, I've acquired about a half dozen of her CDs including her Grieg and Sibelius one (with Oramo).  I don't know that one that you've mentioned however; when did that one come out?

PD

(Sorry for the late reply -- somehow missed this last week.)

Yes, had to look it up! She did a Carnegie Hall recital in 2003, with Martin Katz at the piano, right after she had done Jenufa at the Met.

And here is that recording. Amazon is saying 2006, which sounds right. And yes, she is just wonderful.

https://www.amazon.com/Songs-J-Sibelius/dp/B00000378O/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=mattila+sibelius&qid=1621269105&s=music&sr=1-8

--Bruce

bhodges

Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 13, 2021, 02:39:45 AM
The Stockholm Philharmonic are an excellent orchestra and free-stream some fantastic content.  This looks like a wonderful series - all 7 Sibelius Symphonies in order + the violin concerto live streamed from next week with Sakari Oramo on the podium.  I liked Oramo's Birmingham cycle a lot and also his live Kullervo with the BBC SO is one of the very best.....

https://www.konserthuset.se/en/programme/calendar/concert/2021/livestream-grande-finale--sibelius-with-oramo-i/20210519-1900/

https://www.konserthuset.se/en/programme/calendar/concert/2021/livestream-grande-finale--sibelius-with-oramo-ii/20210522-1500/

https://www.konserthuset.se/en/programme/calendar/concert/2021/grande-finale--sibelius-with-oramo-iii/20210526-1800/

https://www.konserthuset.se/en/programme/calendar/concert/2021/livestream-grande-finale--sibelius-with-oramo-iv/20210529-1500/

And wow, thank you so much for this heads-up. What incredible looking concerts. I can't make all of them live, but hope they will be archived for later viewing. Thanks again, a really mouthwatering array here.

--Bruce

Madiel

This may or may not interest anyone besides me...

I'm sure many of you are aware that Sibelius' opus numbers, particularly the earlier ones, are often not a good guide to the chronology of works. This is because he rewrote the list several times and discarded earlier works that he decided weren't worthy of an opus number. And rather than shuffling everything down, he sometimes shoved in a far later work to fill a gap. So for example you have Arioso as op.3 even though it was written about the same time as the 4th symphony!

I've seen references to the earlier lists of works, but tonight I went to the university library and found the catalogue of works that includes a description of what was actually on those earlier lists. I've always been curious to know which works used to have an opus number and lost them.

And oh my goodness what a mess! I had thought that Sibelius had revised the list 2 or 3 times, but for some opus numbers he shuffled and reshuffled 8 or 10 times before finally shoving a much later work in the gap.

There were 2 lists in 1896 and 1897, then he left it alone until 1905 and then spent the next decade mucking about a lot. Things are pretty stable from op.46 onward, but for numbers before that it's all over the place.

I'm happy to try to share information if people are interested. The book records everything against the opus number (ie "here's everything that was op.1 at some point", then "here's everything that was op.2 at some point"), but for my own purposes I think I'm going to order it as "here is the 1896 list", "here is the 1897 list". Or maybe just "here are all the works that once had opus numbers but lost them".
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Mirror Image

Quote from: Madiel on May 18, 2021, 04:02:28 AM
This may or may not interest anyone besides me...

I'm sure many of you are aware that Sibelius' opus numbers, particularly the earlier ones, are often not a good guide to the chronology of works. This is because he rewrote the list several times and discarded earlier works that he decided weren't worthy of an opus number. And rather than shuffling everything down, he sometimes shoved in a far later work to fill a gap. So for example you have Arioso as op.3 even though it was written about the same time as the 4th symphony!

I've seen references to the earlier lists of works, but tonight I went to the university library and found the catalogue of works that includes a description of what was actually on those earlier lists. I've always been curious to know which works used to have an opus number and lost them.

And oh my goodness what a mess! I had thought that Sibelius had revised the list 2 or 3 times, but for some opus numbers he shuffled and reshuffled 8 or 10 times before finally shoving a much later work in the gap.

There were 2 lists in 1896 and 1897, then he left it alone until 1905 and then spent the next decade mucking about a lot. Things are pretty stable from op.46 onward, but for numbers before that it's all over the place.

I'm happy to try to share information if people are interested. The book records everything against the opus number (ie "here's everything that was op.1 at some point", then "here's everything that was op.2 at some point"), but for my own purposes I think I'm going to order it as "here is the 1896 list", "here is the 1897 list". Or maybe just "here are all the works that once had opus numbers but lost them".

Opus numbers or lack thereof don't really bother to me, but there's nothing more irritating than a composer who doesn't at least date their manuscripts. Without some kind of historical context, I don't think a work can be thoroughly analyzed and assessed.

Madiel

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 18, 2021, 06:53:23 AM
Opus numbers or lack thereof don't really bother to me, but there's nothing more irritating than a composer who doesn't at least date their manuscripts. Without some kind of historical context, I don't think a work can be thoroughly analyzed and assessed.

I think the evidence on Sibelius' chronology is pretty solid, from a mix of his own dating (which he did do at least sometimes) and other information like letters.

The opus numbers interest me mainly because it shows what he regarded as a proper complete work. Given how many other things there are from the earlier period (including all the scraps BIS recorded) I find it helpful to know what, initially, was important enough to him to get numbered.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Brewski on May 17, 2021, 08:37:43 AM
(Sorry for the late reply -- somehow missed this last week.)

Yes, had to look it up! She did a Carnegie Hall recital in 2003, with Martin Katz at the piano, right after she had done Jenufa at the Met.

And here is that recording. Amazon is saying 2006, which sounds right. And yes, she is just wonderful.

https://www.amazon.com/Songs-J-Sibelius/dp/B00000378O/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=mattila+sibelius&qid=1621269105&s=music&sr=1-8

--Bruce
So, this is a live recording?  And you were there at the concert?

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

bhodges

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 19, 2021, 01:11:15 PM
So, this is a live recording?  And you were there at the concert?

PD

I think the recording is a studio version. But yes, I was at the concert! Was trying to find the article I wrote about it, but no luck.

--Bruce

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Brewski on May 20, 2021, 06:40:13 AM
I think the recording is a studio version. But yes, I was at the concert! Was trying to find the article I wrote about it, but no luck.

--Bruce
I'm envious that you were there as she's a favorite singer of mine.  If you manage to find the article, I'd love to read it.   :)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

vandermolen

#2892
From WAYLTN thread:
I'm able to listen to this new release right through from beginning to end with much pleasure. Luonnotar now playing:

Review from the Sunday Times this week:

'Davidsen is not the first non-Finnish singer to tackle Sibelius's vocal tone poem but she brings a youthful, Nordic freshness to this music inspired by the creation myth in the Finnish epic poen 'Kalevala'. Gardner proves himself another fine British Sibelian in the late symphonic poem 'Tapiola', in incidental music for 'Pelleas' (Davidsen sings Melisande's song), 'Rakastava', and the brief but lovely 'Spring Song.'

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on July 06, 2021, 12:11:19 AM
From WAYLTN thread:
I'm able to listen to this new release right through from beginning to end with much pleasure. Luonnotar now playing:

Review from the Sunday Times this week:

'Davidsen is not the first non-Finnish singer to tackle Sibelius's vocal tone poem but she brings a youthful, Nordic freshness to this music inspired by the creation myth in the Finnish epic poen 'Kalevala'. Gardner proves himself another fine British Sibelian in the late symphonic poem 'Tapiola', in incidental music for 'Pelleas' (Davidsen sings Melisande's song), 'Rakastava', and the brief but lovely 'Spring Song.'


Great stuff, Jeffrey. 8) I've been rather disappointed by Gardner's conducting, but he has turned in some fine performances, especially of Britten and Lutoslawski. I've got his Walton series, but I need to listen to them at some juncture.

Symphonic Addict

At last this fascinating work has clicked on me. I'm talking about his Symphony No. 6 in D minor (?), Op. 104. The first movement sounded to me more in C major most of the time, but it does finish in a sort of D minor. For me it represents the Finnish four seasons: spring, summer, autumn and winter. Here Sibelius speaks with a more feminine approach. The music also seems to describe a beautiful nymph who inhabited those mystical and breathtaking lakes. I'm really shocked by how wonderful this symphony is. Sibelius was a real bard of the Finnish forests.

Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 22, 2021, 03:45:26 PM
At last this fascinating work has clicked on me. I'm talking about his Symphony No. 6 in D minor (?), Op. 104. The first movement sounded to me more in C major most of the time, but it does finish in a sort of D minor. For me it represents the Finnish four seasons: spring, summer, autumn and winter. Here Sibelius speaks with a more feminine approach. The music also seems to describe a beautiful nymph who inhabited those mystical and breathtaking lakes. I'm really shocked by how wonderful this symphony is. Sibelius was a real bard of the Finnish forests.



Excellent to read. It took awhile for the 6th to click for me as well, but the performance that did it for me was Vänskä/Lahti on BIS. For years, I just didn't get this symphony, but there was something about Vänskä's approach that made sense --- I think one of the trappings of the 6th is so often you'll have a conductor who is just too heavy-handed with it. Almost like they muddle up the texture but, in my view, the lighter on its feet it is, the better it'll go. This is why Vänskä was such a revelation to me. The Lahti SO aren't a huge orchestra and I think this definitely plays to their advantage in the 6th. Anyway, love the symphony and the whole snow-blown feeling it seems to project or, at least, it does to me.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 22, 2021, 07:25:25 PM
Excellent to read. It took awhile for the 6th to click for me as well, but the performance that did it for me was Vänskä/Lahti on BIS. For years, I just didn't get this symphony, but there was something about Vänskä's approach that made sense --- I think one of the trappings of the 6th is so often you'll have a conductor who is just too heavy-handed with it. Almost like they muddle up the texture but, in my view, the lighter on its feet it is, the better it'll go. This is why Vänskä was such a revelation to me. The Lahti SO aren't a huge orchestra and I think this definitely plays to their advantage in the 6th. Anyway, love the symphony and the whole snow-blown feeling it seems to project or, at least, it does to me.

I take your point about the "lightness" with which this work should be interpreted. It's one of Sibelius's most subtle works, and certainly a bold reading wouldn't benefit it. This performance under Blomstedt really opened my ears. Absolutely gorgeous and not heavy-handed at all. I was missing an extraordinary piece. The first movement is particularly sublime to me.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 23, 2021, 06:48:49 PM
I take your point about the "lightness" with which this work should be interpreted. It's one of Sibelius's most subtle works, and certainly a bold reading wouldn't benefit it. This performance under Blomstedt really opened my ears. Absolutely gorgeous and not heavy-handed at all. I was missing an extraordinary piece. The first movement is particularly sublime to me.

Have you heard the Vänskä/Lahti SO performance on BIS? If not, do give this one a listen. I didn't care much for Blomstedt's Sibelius truth be told. I don't know what it is exactly, but he doesn't excite me in the way Karajan, Berglund or Vänskä does.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 23, 2021, 07:21:11 PM
Have you heard the Vänskä/Lahti SO performance on BIS? If not, do give this one a listen. I didn't care much for Blomstedt's Sibelius truth be told. I don't know what it is exactly, but he doesn't excite me in the way Karajan, Berglund or Vänskä does.

No, I haven't yet. In fact, I am zero familiar with that cycle.

As to Blomstedt, I beg to differ. Those performances leave nothing to be desired. Symphonies 1, 6 and 7 are especially satisfying.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 23, 2021, 07:53:46 PM
No, I haven't yet. In fact, I am zero familiar with that cycle.

As to Blomstedt, I beg to differ. Those performances leave nothing to be desired. Symphonies 1, 6 and 7 are especially satisfying.

I guess I like my Sibelius a bit more icier than most. ;) For me, the true significance of a Sibelius cycle is how a conductor handles the 4th, which is my favorite Sibelius symphony. I'll have to revisit the Blomstedt and see how well he does as I don't quite remember this performance.