The Snowshoed Sibelius

[Kalevala]

After re-reading this thread, I was most interested in a series of comments about how rare (in fact, non-existent) are recordings of Sibelius by conductors from Latin/Romance countries. (French, Italian, etc.) This seems still to be true. There have of course been many recordings of the symphonies by Scandinavian, English, and American conductors, a small number by Germanic ones (Karajan, Stein, Sanderling, Rosbaud), and a famous legacy from one Hungarian (Ormandy).

But I just sorted Presto's listings for the complete cycle and Symphony No. 6 specifically. No Italian, French, Spanish, or otherwise Mediterranean conductors turned up. I then checked En Saga and found two: Victor de Sabata and Arturo Toscanini, both recordings dating from the composer's lifetime.

Interesting.  To play the Devil's advocate for a moment:  is it perchance that they have recorded them, but that they just haven't been good sellers (the reason not listed)?

K

[Jo498]

There's even a gradient between German/Austrian and Anglo/Northern/Eastern European conductors. As I said before, Sibelius (except the violin concerto) was considered somewhat niche in Germany/Austria as late as the 1980s. So were Bruckner and Mahler despite being also championed locally. I am not aware of a famous French Bruckner conductor either (Boulez did #8 only) and the Italian Brucknerians like Giulini, Abbado, Chailly seem to have been so "austrogermanized" that they barely count as Italian anymore (it was all Holy Roman Empire anyway ).

[Irons]

After re-reading this thread, I was most interested in a series of comments about how rare (in fact, non-existent) are recordings of Sibelius by conductors from Latin/Romance countries. (French, Italian, etc.) This seems still to be true. There have of course been many recordings of the symphonies by Scandinavian, English, and American conductors, a small number by Germanic ones (Karajan, Stein, Sanderling, Rosbaud), and a famous legacy from one Hungarian (Ormandy).

But I just sorted Presto's listings for the complete cycle and Symphony No. 6 specifically. No Italian, French, Spanish, or otherwise Mediterranean conductors turned up. I then checked En Saga and found two: Victor de Sabata and Arturo Toscanini, both recordings dating from the composer's lifetime.

An exception to every rule. I also thought Ansermet but he is Swiss so probably doesn't count. 

[Brian]

It might be better to say that the Symphony No. 2 is the exception due to its midcentury popularity. Monteux also recorded it, of course. While searching for more info on the topic (for a reply that the forum software has been steadfastly blocking with a "Forbidden" error since Thursday), I found a performing history of Sibelius symphonies by Rome's major orchestra, the Santa Cecilia. The Second is a frequent guest there. The Fifth had been performed there once in the last 27 years (as of the time of that history being written). The Third and Fourth - never!

EDIT: Let's see if I can get around the "Forbidden" error by editing my blocked post into this one.

The same website that had the Rome history also had performing history for the RAI orchestra in Turin. They've played the Sixth just once.

In the original thread, Jo498 and others listed a number of prominent conductors who did/do not have Sibelius in their repertoires, except to accompany soloists in the Violin Concerto: Giulini, Chailly, Abbado, Munch, Muti, Martinon, Cluytens. (Chailly conducts Finlandia live and there is a live Munch 7th on YouTube.)

Aha! It is working! The only thing remaining is to answer Kalevala's question: Presto lists everything in print, either physically or as download, but not out-of-print not-for-sale old recordings.

[Daverz]

After re-reading this thread, I was most interested in a series of comments about how rare (in fact, non-existent) are recordings of Sibelius by conductors from Latin/Romance countries. (French, Italian, etc.)

Prêtre recorded Symphonies No. 2 & 5.



EDIT: For the 6th, there's Robert Spano's recording.  OK, he was born in Ohio, but the name means "one who came from Spain, or who returned after having resided in Spain."  He recording Symphonies 6, 7, and Kullervo.

Maruice Abravanel did a whole Sibelius symphony cycle.  He was from a Sephardic family from Thessaloniki, and he would have had ancestors who were kicked out of Spain in 1492.

Then there's Adrian Leaper, who made a recording of the 6th with the Orquesta Filarmonica Gran Canaria, which is in the Canary Islands, part of Spain!

[Madiel]

I have an absolutely enormous spreadsheet of Sibelius recordings. From memory I downloaded it from some sort of Sibelius society website. Basically for every work it will tell you what recordings are available, often multiple editions of the same recording when it's one that a big record company keeps reissuing.

I know I downloaded it at least twice, getting an updated version the 2nd time, though that was probably several years ago by now.

[Florestan]

Celibidache recorded S2 with the Swedish RSO and S5 at least thrice: Swedish RSO, Munich Philharmonic and Orchestra RAI di Milano.

[André]

It might be better to say that the Symphony No. 2 is the exception due to its midcentury popularity. Monteux also recorded it, of course. While searching for more info on the topic (for a reply that the forum software has been steadfastly blocking with a "Forbidden" error since Thursday), I found a performing history of Sibelius symphonies by Rome's major orchestra, the Santa Cecilia. The Second is a frequent guest there. The Fifth had been performed there once in the last 27 years (as of the time of that history being written). The Third and Fourth - never!

EDIT: Let's see if I can get around the "Forbidden" error by editing my blocked post into this one.

The same website that had the Rome history also had performing history for the RAI orchestra in Turin. They've played the Sixth just once.

In the original thread, Jo498 and others listed a number of prominent conductors who did/do not have Sibelius in their repertoires, except to accompany soloists in the Violin Concerto: Giulini, Chailly, Abbado, Munch, Muti, Martinon, Cluytens. (Chailly conducts Finlandia live and there is a live Munch 7th on YouTube.)

Aha! It is working! The only thing remaining is to answer Kalevala's question: Presto lists everything in print, either physically or as download, but not out-of-print not-for-sale old recordings.

Munch's 7th is a stunning performance. He added it to his repertoire late in life but played it a few times. Strange that he didn't choose the 1st or the 2nd instead. He turns the 7th into an intensely romantic experience, so that may be what attracted him to the piece.

[Kalevala]

I have an absolutely enormous spreadsheet of Sibelius recordings. From memory I downloaded it from some sort of Sibelius society website. Basically for every work it will tell you what recordings are available, often multiple editions of the same recording when it's one that a big record company keeps reissuing.

I know I downloaded it at least twice, getting an updated version the 2nd time, though that was probably several years ago by now.

Perhaps it was from Sibelius One?  Though what I read, they stated that it was just ones that were in print.

K

[Florestan]

Celibidache recorded S2 with the Swedish RSO and S5 at least thrice: Swedish RSO, Munich Philharmonic and Orchestra RAI di Milano.

The S5 with RAI Milano would apparently make it doubly Latin/Romance —— except that Celibidache is rather Teutonic what with his serious and solemn approach to music in general. 

[Skogwald]

What are some REALLY good sounding Sibelius recordings? I would like to hear these perfet symphonies in perfect sound.

[DavidW]

What are some REALLY good sounding Sibelius recordings? I would like to hear these perfet symphonies in perfect sound.

Vanska/Minnesota has such impressive sonics that it sounds like you are there in the concert hall. They are literally the best recording of anything I have ever heard. Not just Sibelius. Not just classical. Anything. If you listen to it on a good stereo, you will be blown away.

[Skogwald]

Vanska/Minnesota has such impressive sonics that it sounds like you are there in the concert hall. They are literally the best recording of anything I have ever heard. Not just Sibelius. Not just classical. Anything. If you listen to it on a good stereo, you will be blown away.

Excellent, that's my today's listening sorted. Thank you!

[AnotherSpin]

Vanska/Minnesota has such impressive sonics that it sounds like you are there in the concert hall. They are literally the best recording of anything I have ever heard. Not just Sibelius. Not just classical. Anything. If you listen to it on a good stereo, you will be blown away.

I'm very fond of Vänskä's recordings of the Sibelius symphonies, could listen to them any day of the week. They're beautifully recorded too: soft, natural, really quite a delicious sound. That said, I wouldn't go so far as to claim they're the finest audio quality recordings I've ever heard .

[DavidW]

I'm very fond of Vänskä's recordings of the Sibelius symphonies, could listen to them any day of the week. They're beautifully recorded too: soft, natural, really quite a delicious sound. That said, I wouldn't go so far as to claim they're the finest audio quality recordings I've ever heard .

That is fine. I didn't say it was the finest SQ you've ever heard, I said it was the finest I ever heard.

[Roasted Swan]

Excellent, that's my today's listening sorted. Thank you!

Hang on there!  Check out the "other" BIS cycle - recorded in SACD from Okku Kamu.  He's a great Sibelian but this cycle in really fine sound has been oddly overlooked almost everywhere....



In the interest of full disclosure Jabba the Hurwitz finds this cycle "variable" at best.

[relm1]

Hang on there!  Check out the "other" BIS cycle - recorded in SACD from Okku Kamu.  He's a great Sibelian but this cycle in really fine sound has been oddly overlooked almost everywhere....



In the interest of full disclosure Jabba the Hurwitz finds this cycle "variable" at best.

I love his conducting.  Yes, a very fine set.  Very authentic.  In contrast, Bernstein's DG recordings sound like Sibelius by way of Richard Strauss.  I like it, it's just a very different feel.

[AnotherSpin]

That is fine. I didn't say it was the finest SQ you've ever heard, I said it was the finest I ever heard.

Not entirely sure I grasped the point of your remark: "I didn't say it was the finest SQ you've ever heard". Naturally, you couldn't possibly know what I've listened to, or in what sound quality. But do carry on.

[Florestan]

Not entirely sure I grasped the point of your remark: "I didn't say it was the finest SQ you've ever heard". Naturally, you couldn't possibly know what I've listened to, or in what sound quality. But do carry on.

For someone who very so often claims not to care about what other people think, the lady doth protest too much. 

[DavidW]

Hang on there!  Check out the "other" BIS cycle - recorded in SACD from Okku Kamu.  He's a great Sibelian but this cycle in really fine sound has been oddly overlooked almost everywhere....

I wonder if it was just eclipsed by Vanska with the same orchestra. I'll have to give this set a listen!