The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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M forever

Quote from: mahler10th on September 02, 2008, 11:48:52 AM
And what is your favourite tone poem - and why it so?  Mines done by Scottish National Orchestra under Sir Alexander Gibson:  Nightride and Sunrise.  Recorded in Glasgow City Halls in 1978 (released six years later I think) - there's more mystery and curiosity with the Gibson version, we know we're on the journey the title depicts and oh what a glorious sunrise!

The Rattle recording with the Philharmonia is clearly better in every respect. Better played, better recorded, more characterized. Not that the Gibson version is at all bad - far from it. It is a very decent performance. This is one of the things (one of the few things, actually) that I think Rattle got totally "right".

John Copeland

Quote from: M forever on September 02, 2008, 11:54:01 AM
The Rattle recording with the Philharmonia is clearly better in every respect. Better played, better recorded, more characterized. Not that the Gibson version is at all bad - far from it. It is a very decent performance. This is one of the things (one of the few things, actually) that I think Rattle got totally "right".

I do not have that to compare, so great tip, it's on my next-list.

vandermolen

#182
Tapiola is my favourite. As for recordings of it, I have a number of very good ones. Jarvi's DGG recording an old DGG one with Hans Rosbaud of Brucknerian fame. Beecham and Karajan made excellent recordings too.

As for the symphonies I have an excellent boxed set with Sixten Ehrling conducting the Swedish RSO. I love many of the Beecham recordings, especially of Symphony No 4.

The complete Karelia music is my recommendation to anyone who does not know it (I like the Ondine version but the BIS is fine too.) It really was a great discovery.

Four Legends: Thomas Jensen with Danish RSO is my favourite recording, very atmospheric. I like the old Koussevitsky and Kajanus symphony recordings too.

My latest Sibelius aquisition is Basil Cameron conducts Symphony No 2 and Erich Leinsdorf conducts Symphony No 5 and the Karelia Suite. These are from 1946/7. I shall listen tonight, inspired by this thread.

Rattle's Symphony 3 is excellent.

I think that Sibelius was the greatest 20th Century composer and the only one whose music I can listen to regardless of the mood I am in.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Kullervo

Sibelius is my favorite composer. I relate to his music in a way I don't know how to describe.

Quote from: mahler10th on September 02, 2008, 11:48:52 AM
And what is your favourite tone poem - and why it so?

The Oceanides — it has this feeling of the mists and dread of the unknown that is very unique in his music, indeed, I doubt there is anything else like it in all music.

Lethevich

Quote from: mahler10th on September 02, 2008, 11:48:52 AM
For example, which performance of Snofrid, Op. 29 do you recommend?  It has fast become one of my favourite pieces ever.  I have only the one version, Vanska with the Lahti Symphony Orchestra, so I'd like to know what the forum thinks before I buy another of the same in the hope of something better

It is very good, but I doubt anybody other than Järvi and Vänskä have recorded it, and I cannot imagine the former being better...

Quote from: mahler10th on September 02, 2008, 11:48:52 AM
And what is your favourite tone poem - and why it so?

The Oceanides (Vänskä, Berglund), The Bard (Vänskä). Oceanides... words cannot describe. The Bard has a similar organic buildup to a big event in the second half, but is a different atmosphere - warmer, delicate, naturalistic in feel (the Oceanides in comparison sounds almost ghostly). Something about the writing makes it comfort me like little else - it is stylistically a mile away from the earlier tone poems with all their turmoil.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Kullervo

Quote from: Lethe on September 02, 2008, 01:00:53 PM

Oceanides... words cannot describe. The Bard has a similar organic buildup to a big event in the second half, but is a different atmosphere - warmer, delicate, naturalistic in feel (the Oceanides in comparison sounds almost ghostly). Something about the writing makes it comfort me like little else - it is stylistically a mile away from the earlier tone poems with all their turmoil.

I hate saying this, but — yes, ditto. Couldn't have said it better.

drogulus

     
     I rate Tapiola among the finest tone poems written by anyone. I only have the Beecham recording from 1955.

    Tapiola, The Oceanides, and Symphony No. 7 on one disc, conducted by Beecham.

   


    I have the earlier non-GROC CD, a 1990 release. I don't know if it makes sense to get this remaster.

   
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John Copeland

Quote from: Que on September 02, 2008, 01:17:29 PM
I think there is one: The Snowshoed Sibelius

I will merge the threads if there are no objections.

Q

Thats ok Q.  One day, and one very fine day it will be, far, far in the mystical future, I will start a thread that is original enough to NOT get merged.    :-[

Mark

Anyone looking for some Sibelius off the beaten track might want to try his Swanwhite Suite, which is rather beautifully played on this disc:

vandermolen

#189
Quote from: drogulus on September 02, 2008, 01:29:11 PM
     
     I rate Tapiola among the finest tone poems written by anyone. I only have the Beecham recording from 1955.

    Tapiola, The Oceanides, and Symphony No. 7 on one disc, conducted by Beecham.

   


    I have the earlier non-GROC CD, a 1990 release. I don't know if it makes sense to get this remaster.

   

V good CD. The Bard and Oceanides are also favourites of mine as is In Memoriam.

Have just listened to Basil Cameron's excellent recording of Symphony No 2 (LPO, 1947, Dutton)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

#190
@mahler10th:

1. Tapiola (Blomstedt - SFSO) by far the tone poem/performance I like most. THE forest hymn. I know many Tapiolas. It is the best performance because it is the best performance. Period. ;) Good quality as well.
Listen carefully- you'll experience thousands of variations of the main theme.
2. The Wood Nymph - The BIS recording Lahti/Vänskä. Groundbreaking drama.
3. En Saga. Very refreshing! It rocks. Beautiful conclusion, I posted a piece of it somewhere here. A lot of good performances. I like Lahti/Vänskä here as well.

Nightride and Sunrise - it has a very special mood, very great. I look when I'm at home, not sure what my fav. performance was. Maybe Järvi Gothenburg. Generally, most likely you find good performances with either Vänskä/Lahti or Järvi/Gothenburg. EDIT: Yes, I like Järvi/GSO most.

In memoriam -has been mentioned- yes good, true. But only the final version. Vänskä/Lahti.

Is there a voiceless orchestral Snofrid out there?

M forever

Quote from: Wurstwasser on September 03, 2008, 01:48:13 AM
It is the best performance because it is the best performance. Period.

Thanks, that was very informative.


Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

It's subjective, anyway. This Tapiola is as I think it should be played. The tempo is fine. You can hear many details, the great finale, which starts with this kind of violin storm, the timpanies afterwards, the last increasing of volume (pp?) in the end, just everything as I think it should be played. It's all subjective, I have no english words and not many better german words and no objective words.
OK this is objective: The performance has a good recording quality.

eyeresist

I don't listen to the tone poems much. I don't think any come close to the quality of the symphonies.

Kurkikohtaus

Quote from: eyeresist on September 03, 2008, 08:07:31 PMI don't think any come close to the quality of the symphonies.

I'm going to have to step in here after some time away and interject a little.  I love music forums, as most threads yield informative or at least fun discussions about topics we all care dearly about.  That said, most threads also contain sweeping generalizations that do not meet the standards of modern criticism or analysis.  I don't mean to pick on eyeresist, but his statement is exactly onesuch.

While most posts in most threads are simply different ways of stating opinions, I believe it is very important to always formulate our opinions carefully and justify them.  If we slack from these standards, we risk degrading the discussions found here into pointless trumpetings of our favourite pieces.

I credit eyeresist in saying "I don't think" as opposed to "They don't come close".  A good first step.  But I object to his use of the word "quality".  If he had said...

They don't communicate to me what the symphonies do...
The themes in the tone poems aren't as memorable to me as the ones in the ones in the symphonies...
I find them too one-dimensional when compared to the internal contrasts within each symphony...


... or any variation thereof, I wouldn't be writing this post.

But eyeresist chose the term "quality".  "Quality" is a term that can drive a man insane and one who's historical philosophical examination traces back to ancient Greece.  In short, it is offering a value judgement about something singularily inherent to the subject, in this case Sibelius' the tone poems.  The word positions itself to uncover an element that is beyond mere opinion but directly exposes something basic about the subject's existance.

So I ask when making a statement like the one above, that we either qualify our opinion through musical and stringent philosophilcal examination, or simply express our opinions in less complicated ways.

eyeresist

I take it back. The tone poems are just as good as the symphonies.




>:D

Kurkikohtaus

My point was not in defence of the tone poems.  It is perfectly fine that someone likes the symphonies much better.

My point was that if we are going to talk about their comparative inherent quality, we need to justify our opinions with deeper arguments.

eyeresist

Sorry. You should have explained yourself at length.

karlhenning

Quote from: Kurkikohtaus on September 04, 2008, 12:33:52 AM
My point was not in defence of the tone poems.  It is perfectly fine that someone likes the symphonies much better.

My point was that if we are going to talk about their comparative inherent quality, we need to justify our opinions with deeper arguments.

Entirely agree that there is value in distinguishing between one's preferences, and what is actually a component of the music.

vandermolen

I like Maazel's VPO Tapiola because of the very slow phrasing of the storm sequence.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).