The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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Lethevich

Quote from: Wurstwasser on February 02, 2009, 05:42:19 AM
Oh well, it's a piece I always skipped because of the talking.

I think there is a similar RVW work that I also cannot enjoy due to this...



I have it in this recording, and the disc is 'interesting', but none of the works are particularly top-flight.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

karlhenning

Quote from: Lethe on February 02, 2009, 06:01:09 AM
I think there is a similar RVW work that I also cannot enjoy due to this...

For me it's Debussy's Chansons de Bilitis.

Thread duty: Really enjoying the Blomstedt recording of the Seventh; and it's thanks to Ben for bringing this to my attention!

DavidRoss

As a certifiable Sibelius nut, I have 16 of the 23 cycles shown above, plus a couple of others, as well as individual recordings from all but one of the others.  The ones I return to most frequently are Bernstein/NYPO (I've also come to enjoy his very different approach with the WP late in life), Blomstedt/SFS, Vänskä/Lahti, Berglund (all 3!), Maazel/WP, Sakari/Iceland, and Segerstam/HPO.  Those I like least and listen to occasionally out of a sense of obligation to give them a fair hearing are: Järvi on BIS (dull as dishwater--I don't have DGG but expect no different), Davis (all 3 bore me), and Ashkenazy/LSO (some things are just plain wrong!).  Further comments, should anyone be interested, are plentiful not only here but even more so on the old forum Rob has graciously resurrected.

As for the 7th, I've never considered it similar to Ein Alpensinfonie (not one of my favorite works) but might well give the Strauss a hearing with the comparison in mind.  Chambernut, what makes them seem similar to you?

Finally, for those who know little other than the symphonies, the VC, and some of the tone poems, I highly recommend his incidental music for the theatre (especially P&M and The Tempest) and his vocal music for both orchestral and piano accompaniment.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

jlaurson

Quote from: DavidRoss on February 02, 2009, 06:25:55 AM
As a certifiable Sibelius nut, I have 16 of the 23 cycles shown above, plus a couple of others,

Pray tell, which ones are they?!


ChamberNut

Quote from: DavidRoss on February 02, 2009, 06:25:55 AM
As for the 7th, I've never considered it similar to Ein Alpensinfonie (not one of my favorite works) but might well give the Strauss a hearing with the comparison in mind.  Chambernut, what makes them seem similar to you?

I don't know David?  Please keep in mind, I'm a veritable newbie in the Sibelius arena, and particularly Sibelius 7th!  It is the atmosphere and mood of the symphony.  Reminded me of a vast northern landscape, and I got to think of Strauss' Eine Alpensinfonie.  Whether I'm in my own little world or not, both works are my favorites respectably for both composers (Symphony No. 2 coming in a close 2nd for Sibelius, and Don Quixote for Strauss).  :)

DavidRoss

Quote from: jlaurson on February 02, 2009, 06:39:17 AM
Pray tell, which ones are they?!
The complete cycle by Rozhdestvensky and the incomplete cycle by Bernstein on DGG and Karajan on EMI, and I'm a couple short of Maazel's cycle with Pittsburg.  Like I said, I'm a nut on JS--the only composer I have more recordings of is Beethoven!

Quote from: ChamberNut on February 02, 2009, 06:42:46 AM
I don't know David?  Please keep in mind, I'm a veritable newbie in the Sibelius arena, and particularly Sibelius 7th!  It is the atmosphere and mood of the symphony.  Reminded me of a vast northern landscape, and I got to think of Strauss' Eine Alpensinfonie.  Whether I'm in my own little world or not, both works are my favorites respectably for both composers (Symphony No. 2 coming in a close 2nd for Sibelius, and Don Quixote for Strauss).  :)
Well, Donkey Hotey is one of my favorite Strauss pieces, but the second is my least favorite of JS's symphonies (though it's still pretty good).  I will give the Strauss a shot later today if I have the time.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

jlaurson


updated - Maazel Pittsburgh & Rozhdestvensky added
Thanks to DavidRoss for the reminder.

Here's a list of (almost) all available Sibelius Symphony cycles. (Very roughly sorted (top to bottom) acc. to my personal favorites. [Some I have not heard - e.g. Segerstam I, Berglund I & III, Jaervi I, Collins, Saraste...]
"Berglund II", despite being next to 'last', is safely recommendable... I merely added it late.
Oramo's Sibelius (Erato/Warner) has not (yet?) been issued in a box. Davis III (LSO live), good but overrated, isn't out as a box, either... Davis II I won't include unless I have to. (I.e. to fill the fourth spot in the last row.)
I've found the Sixtus Ehrling/Stockholm cycle still exists (at least on German Amazon). Anyone have that?
Daverz pointed out the Rozhdestvensky cycle, available in Japan.
What was I thinking when I wrote "Birmingham" instead of "Bournemouth" for Berglund II? Probably "Rattle". :-) Corrected, thanks to Peregrine








V. Ashkenazy I,
Philharmonia
Decca ~$40,-
C. Davis I,
Boston SO
Philips v.1 ~$18,-
A. Gibson,
Royal ScO
Chandos (oop)
L. Segerstam I,
Danish NSO
Chandos/Brilliant ~$46,-
N. Jaervi I,
Gothenburg SO
BIS ~$62,-
A. Collins,
LSO
Decca (Japan) ~$44,-
L. Maazel II,
Pittsburg SO
Sony ~$25,-

L. Segerstam II,
Helsinki PO
Ondine ~$54,-
C. Davis I,
Boston SO
Philips v.2 ~$18,-
H.v. Karajan / Kamu,
Berlin Phil
DG ~$24,-
L. Bernstein,
NY Phil
Sony ~$50,-
P. Berglund I,
Bournemouth SO
Royal Classics (oop)
J.P. Saraste,
Finnish RSO
Finlandia (oop) ~$60,-
G. Rozhdestvensky,
Moscow RSO (Japan only)
Russia Ed. ~$26,-
O. Vanska,
Lahti SO
BIS ~$65,-
L. Maazel,
Vienna Phil.
Decca ~$24,-
K. Sanderling,
Berlin
Berlin Cl. ~$33,-
Sir J. Barbirolli,
Hallé Orchestra
EMI ~$35,- (sale)
P. Berglund II,
Helsinki PO
EMI ~$35,- (sale)
C. Davis III,
LSO v.1-v.2-v.3-v.4
LSO live (4 à ~$16,-)
H. Blomstedt,
S.F.SO
Decca ~$31,-
P. Sakari,
Iceland SO
Naxos ~$36,-
N. Järvi II,
Gothenburg SO
DG ~$56,-
P. Rattle,
Birmingh.SO
EMI ~$34,-
P. Berglund III,
Chamber OoE

Finlandia ~$40,-
(Germany only)
C. Davis II,
LSO
RCA ~$41,-


John Copeland

Quote from: ChamberNut on February 02, 2009, 04:05:02 AM
I am really enjoying Sibelius' Symphony No. 7 in C

Is it just me - it reminds me a lot of Strauss' Eine Alpensinfonie?

Its just you.

John Copeland

David, what is just plain wrong about the Ashkenazy/LPO?  I've never heard it.  Did he do a set with them?  Or is that a reference to the Philharmonia?  If it is, I'm very interested in what you have to say - why is it plain wrong?

Wanderer

#249
Quote from: jlaurson on February 02, 2009, 08:12:05 AM
updated - Maazel Pittsburgh & Rozhdestvensky added
Thanks to DavidRoss for the reminder.

Here's a list of (almost) all available Sibelius Symphony cycles. (Very roughly sorted (top to bottom) acc. to my personal favorites. [Some I have not heard - e.g. Segerstam I, Berglund I & III, Jaervi I, Collins, Saraste...]
"Berglund II", despite being next to 'last', is safely recommendable... I merely added it late.
Oramo's Sibelius (Erato/Warner) has not (yet?) been issued in a box. Davis III (LSO live), good but overrated, isn't out as a box, either... Davis II I won't include unless I have to. (I.e. to fill the fourth spot in the last row.)
I've found the Sixtus Ehrling/Stockholm cycle still exists (at least on German Amazon). Anyone have that?
Daverz pointed out the Rozhdestvensky cycle, available in Japan.
What was I thinking when I wrote "Birmingham" instead of "Bournemouth" for Berglund II? Probably "Rattle". :-) Corrected, thanks to Peregrine



Excellent work! Let me also mention Finnish Radio SO/Saraste's second (studio) cycle available on Finlandia as 6 individual discs.

The Oramo/CBSO cycle is available as a set from Erato (got it in the mail yesterday but haven't listened to it yet).

DavidRoss

Quote from: mahler10th on February 02, 2009, 08:43:47 AM
David, what is just plain wrong about the Ashkenazy/LPO?  I've never heard it.  Did he do a set with them?  Or is that a reference to the Philharmonia?  If it is, I'm very interested in what you have to say - why is it plain wrong?
Not the LPO, the LSO (London Symphony Orchestra).  And it was a mistake on my part (should proof my posts, eh?)!   Don't know how "LSO" got in there--still thinking of Colin Davis, perhaps, whose Sibelius (like most of his recordings?) isn't so much bad as chronically overrated, especially by Anglophiles and the British press.  The set in question is with the Philharmonia Orchestra.

I know that some respected critics (as well as some posters here whose opinions I often share) praise this set, but to me it's so grossly overdone--romanticized, hopped-up--that it's garish.  Ashkenazy reads him consistent with the mainstream and completely wrong point of view regarding Sibelius as a second-rate Russian Romantic, slogging along garishly in Tchaikovsky's footsteps.  I hear Sibelius quite differently.  Even in his early career when still influenced by Tchaikovsky and the Viennese and Wagner, I hear the independent proto-Sibelius, a distinctive voice guided by an essentially modern aesthetic.  One of the many virtues of Blomstedt's set for me is that he brings out more of JS's unique voice in the early symphonies than one often hears under the baton of conductors trying to fit JS into a conventional late-Romantic mold.  (Not that I insist on always hearing a lean and bracing rendering of his music.  I rather like Maazel's hot WP set, Bernstein's near-wallowing WP quasi-set, Segerstam's lush HPO set (and what I've heard of his set with the Danes), and Rozhdestvensky's smoking cycle in really bad Russian sound.)

For more discussion of Sibelius's music in general as well as opinions about specific recordings, you might look up relevant threads on the old GMG forum which Rob has graciously restored access to.  I recall, for instance, a discussion with Mike S. (M) about Luonnotar that I might revisit out of curiosity to see whether I still feel the same way.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

karlhenning

Separately . . . when I first popped this disc into the drive (disc 2 of the Blomstedt set), it was with the intention of listening to Tapiola.  My aim nearly turned as I heard the opening measures of the Second Symphony, which I haven't heard in a while, and which sounded invitingly fresh!

jlaurson

#252
Quote from: Wanderer on February 02, 2009, 08:46:21 AM
Excellent work! Let me also mention Finnish Radio SO/Saraste's second (studio) cycle available on Finlandia as 6 individual discs.

The Oramo/CBSO cycle is available as a set from Erato (got it in the mail yesterday but haven't listened to it yet).

Found it. Thanks!  And Saraste has TWO cycles?? Which is the one I included? (And which is the other?)


DavidRoss

Quote from: jlaurson on February 02, 2009, 10:31:08 AM
Found it. Thanks!  And Saraste has TWO cycles?? Which is the one I included? (And which is the other?)
The one you pictured is the live set recorded on tour in St. Petersburg.  As I recall it's really quite good, though I've seldom heard it since I've so many others that I usually reach for.  Maybe it's time for another go.  I know nothing about another Saraste set.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

DavidRoss

Quote from: karlhenning on February 02, 2009, 10:25:47 AM
Separately . . . when I first popped this disc into the drive (disc 2 of the Blomstedt set), it was with the intention of listening to Tapiola.  My aim nearly turned as I heard the opening measures of the Second Symphony, which I haven't heard in a while, and which sounded invitingly fresh!
Worth a listen, Karl, as is his/their fine reading of the Third.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

karlhenning

Oh, yes, I do like this entire set, Dave!

Renfield

I seem to have ended up with no less than twelve of the above complete cycles in my collection, I realise...

And Segerstam, for one, demands my urgent attention!

Sergeant Rock

#257
Quote from: jlaurson on February 02, 2009, 10:31:08 AM
Found it. Thanks!  And Saraste has TWO cycles?? Which is the one I included?

You show the second. His first cycle was recorded by RCA and released in the late 80s, early 90s, one symphony to a disc with fillers. I only have two discs from that set (3 and 7). I'm not sure it was ever offered as a box.


Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

#258
I had both russian cycles - Rozhdestvensky and Ashkenazy - and I sold both. Both didn't match my "technical" quality needs. The Rozh of course was worse, lot of hiss. Ashkenazy has some Subway rumbling and hiss. And - both were IIRC played pretty fast. Especially some pieces on the Rozh cycle are played really fast. Hastily. I had no reasons to keep it and I avoid collecting things which I'll surely not listen to. So, as for the symphonies and Tapiola, I stick with Blomstedt. Only for the 4th Symphony I tend to switch to Segerstam.

Night ride and Sunrise (a real good one!), Lemminkäinen: Järvi/Gothenburg. On the Symphonies cycle.
Wood Nymph, En Saga: Vänskä/Lahti
Finlandia: Rozhdestvensky/LSO

jlaurson

#259
It looks like the new Ashkenazy Sibelius cycle on Exton is finnish(ed), too!:

Symphonies 4 & 5, Less outrageously expensive in the UK


Symphony 2 & Tapiola, Swan of T. (UK)


Symphonies 1 & 3, in the UK


Symphonies 6 & 7, UK

Wurstwasser: "Ashkenazy's Russian cycle????" Which one are you talking about.
Thanks, Sergeant--so the other recordings on Warner/Elatus/Finlandia are all one-and-the-same Saraste cycle?!


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

updated - Maazel Pittsburgh & Rozhdestvensky added. Wanatabe also added.
Thanks to DavidRoss for the reminder. Thanks to Drasko for Wanatabe hint!

Here's a list of (almost) all available Sibelius Symphony cycles. (Very roughly sorted (top to bottom) acc. to my personal favorites. [Some I have not heard - e.g. Segerstam I, Berglund I & III, Jaervi I, Collins, Saraste...]
"Berglund II", despite being next to 'last', is safely recommendable... I merely added it late.
Oramo's Sibelius (Erato/Warner) has not (yet?) been issued in a box. Davis III (LSO live), good but overrated, isn't out as a box, either... Davis II I won't include unless I have to. (I.e. to fill the fourth spot in the last row.)
I've found the Sixtus Ehrling/Stockholm cycle still exists (at least on German Amazon). Anyone have that?
Daverz pointed out the Rozhdestvensky cycle, available in Japan.
What was I thinking when I wrote "Birmingham" instead of "Bournemouth" for Berglund II? Probably "Rattle". :-) Corrected, thanks to Peregrine








V. Ashkenazy I,
Philharmonia
Decca ~$40,-
C. Davis I,
Boston SO
Philips v.1 ~$18,-
A. Gibson,
Royal ScO
Chandos (oop)
L. Segerstam I,
Danish NSO
Chandos/Brilliant ~$46,-
N. Jaervi I,
Gothenburg SO
BIS ~$62,-
A. Collins,
LSO
Decca (Japan) ~$44,-
L. Maazel II,
Pittsburg SO
Sony ~$25,-

L. Segerstam II,
Helsinki PO
Ondine ~$54,-
C. Davis I,
Boston SO
Philips v.2 ~$18,-
H.v. Karajan / Kamu,
Berlin Phil
DG ~$24,-
L. Bernstein,
NY Phil
Sony ~$50,-
P. Berglund I,
Bournemouth SO
Royal Classics (oop)
J.P. Saraste,
Finnish RSO
Finlandia (oop) ~$60,-
G. Rozhdestvensky,
Moscow RSO (Japan only)
Russia Ed. ~$26,-
O. Vanska,
Lahti SO
BIS ~$65,-
L. Maazel,
Vienna Phil.
Decca ~$24,-
K. Sanderling,
Berlin
Berlin Cl. ~$33,-
Sir J. Barbirolli,
Hallé Orchestra
EMI ~$35,- (sale)
P. Berglund II,
Helsinki PO
EMI ~$35,- (sale)
C. Davis III,
LSO v.1-v.2-v.3-v.4
LSO live (4 à ~$16,-)
S. Oramo,
CoBirm.O

Erato ~£30,-
(Europe only)
H. Blomstedt,
S.F.SO
Decca ~$31,-
P. Sakari,
Iceland SO
Naxos ~$36,-
N. Järvi II,
Gothenburg SO
DG ~$56,-
P. Rattle,
Birmingh.SO
EMI ~$34,-
P. Berglund III,
Chamber OoE

Finlandia ~$40,-
(Germany only)
C. Davis II,
LSO
RCA ~$41,-
A. Watanabe,
Japan PhilO
(Japan only)
Denon ~$31,-