The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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karlhenning

Quote from: Corey on March 25, 2009, 08:05:22 PM
Do any of the piano pieces qualify as ART, so that I could narrow down my search to one or two discs?

That's not being a snob, that's managing one's time and attention.

DavidRoss

Corey--If you follow this link to the first page of this thread, you'll see Donwyn's recommendations for discs of orchestral songs, which I heartily endorse.  The Isokoski/Segerstam/HPO sonic spectacular on Ondine may not have my favorite renditions of certain favorite songs, but it's pretty darned good all around and received rave reviews when released.  BBC Music Magazine even named it their Disc of the Year.  My capsule review of it on the old forum is here, followed by some discussion with Michael S. (M) about it and the then newly-reissued Blomstedt/SFS cycle.  Somewhere else around there is a discussion with Michael about the merits of various recordings of Luonnotar which you might find of interest.

I'm glad you've expressed an interest in Sibelius's songs.  Some of the Sibelius fans around here have been advocating his vocal music for a long time.  The Isokoski record and the Karneus disc recommended above should give you a good idea why.  Most of the songs, like his piano music, were written not as ART--that he reserved for the symphonies and tone poems, and a few other bits and pieces like the Voces Intimae quartet--but rather to meet the market demand for music for amateurs to perform at home (real chamber music) in the days before TV and radio and the internet created a pop culture of musical illiterates. 
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Benji

I'm not a big fan of the piano music either. Why then, didn't Sibelius write more music for violin since that's an instrument he clearly was fond of? Not to mention bloody good with it! I'm sure I read his Violin Concerto was the most performed concerto for any instrument, or at least most performed 20th century concerto.


DavidRoss

Quote from: Benji on March 26, 2009, 09:20:57 AM
I'm not a big fan of the piano music either. Why then, didn't Sibelius write more music for violin since that's an instrument he clearly was fond of? Not to mention bloody good with it! I'm sure I read his Violin Concerto was the most performed concerto for any instrument, or at least most performed 20th century concerto.
Probably didn't sell as well...and he was always in need of money.

No doubt you're familiar with this?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Moldyoldie

#304
[Updated for timeliness and extended remarks on 3/27/09, pasted from "What Are You Listening To?"]

Sibelius: Symphony No. 5; Symphony No. 6
London Symphony Orchestra
Sir Colin Davis, cond.
LSO LIVE

With the semi-chaos that's become of the recording industry, and as do a few prominent orchestras nowadays, the London Symphony Orchestra is producing and distributing live recordings on their own label. This is the first installment of what has become Sir Colin Davis' third complete recorded cycle of Sibelius' symphonies, the last two with the LSO.

Unfortunately, for much of the popular Symphony No. 5 it's "Hum Along with Sir Colin". Though it's become something of a given throughout Davis' vast discography, I've never heard his humming as disconcertingly conspicuous as here! One might be able to overlook it in the face of an overwhelmingly convincing performance, but the truth is that Davis doesn't necessarily convey a special affinity for this stirring and monumental score. The performance is certainly enjoyable enough -- tuneful, mostly fleet of pace, powerful when need be, and confidently played with an evident savvy emanating from the podium -- but it's hardly as gripping, penetrating, and memorable as those of Bernstein and Karajan, who in my estimation still reign supreme in this work, even when compared to the recent spate of fine native Finnish and Scandinavian performances on CD.

The performance of Symphony No. 6 here, however, has become one of my personal favorites. This knotty score is seemingly the bane of many Sibelian interpreters, but Davis and the LSO winningly render an optimistic reading from beginning to end. The delightfully disarming poco vivace third movement, a favorite Sibelian concoction of this listener, is especially fetching here. An effective performance of this symphony seemingly hinges on artful tempo relations and the all-important dynamic balance between strings and winds; here it's well-nigh perfect -- and Davis' humming is mercifully held in check!

Overall, I do love the performances on this CD. The acoustic of the Barbican live performance recording venue is decidedly dry, but it complements Davis' mostly cerebral take on these two symphonies. If one can manage to inure themself to the conductor's "verbal accompaniment" in No. 5, these are most enjoyable.
"I think the problem with technology is that people use it because it's around.  That is disgusting and stupid!  Please quote me."
- Steve Reich

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

I avoid buying CDs with Mr. Davis because of his humming. He's annoying.

Wanderer

Quote from: moldyoldie on March 27, 2009, 03:29:29 PM
Unfortunately, for much of the popular Symphony No. 5 it's "Hum Along with Sir Colin". Though it's become something of a given throughout Davis' vast discography, I've never heard his humming as disconcertingly conspicuous as here!

Maybe the recording engineers assigned him his own microphone for this one?

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

Quote from: Wanderer on March 30, 2009, 12:36:18 AMMaybe the recording engineers assigned him his own microphone for this one?
They should put him into a glass box.

nut-job

Recently listened to Pohjola's Daughter, Jarvi's recent recording on DG.  A piece which vaguely follows a program involving the North god, but which is wonderfully evocative in a purely musical sense.  Superb!

Moldyoldie

#309
[Pasted from "What Are You Listening To?]

Sibelius: Symphony No. 4; Symphony No. 5
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra
James Levine, cond.
DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON

Under Levine's direction, Sibelius's dark and morose Fourth Symphony begins powerfully and weighty, more akin to Maazel/VPO than Karajan/BPO, the latter whose opening double-basses arise from silence with a more soft-spoken sullenness.  Levine traverses the four-movement landscape with a fine feel for where the music needs to go and how to get there; one is hardpressed to notice a musical misstep at any point -- and the orchestra does play splendidly!  However, Karajan's Sibelius Fourth (BPO/'78 on EMI) is certainly more characterful and overtly dramatic, putting forth one of the most convincing arguments of this great symphony's gravitas and import. The intensity of Karajan's Il tempo largo is well-nigh unmatched, in my opinion.  Still, all told, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest Levine's performance as an introduction to the Fourth for the novice listener. Seasoned listeners, too, should appreciate Levine's sheer grasp of this great and mysterious music, rendered in up-close and incredibly vivid recorded sound.

Levine effects the popular Symphony No. 5 in a full-bore forward manner much as he did in his overall ill-measured reading of No. 2 with the same forces.  However, the first movement here is taken much too fast for effectiveness in the climaxes.  The usually deliberately demarcated long crescendo building to the opening movement's powerful conclusion (the highlight of the entire symphony for this listener!) lacks meaningful contrast with what precedes it; its intrinsic dramatic impact is effectively fleeced. (sigh!) The andante second movement, also taken at a brisk pace, is also devoid of meaningful contrast.  The buzzing violins which commence the opening of the third movement sound here as if tiny killer bees are swarming an intruder to the hive -- would it be a redundancy to describe it as hyperactive prestissimo?   This leads to the first sounding of the big theme which is seemingly too fast by half, as indeed are its succeeding reiterations -- the transcendental sense of nature's power and grandeur is thus diminished.  Are we noticing a pattern here?  While I've always admired and often appreciated Levine's "no fear" headlong approach to conducting many of the thorniest Late Romantic and 20th Century warhorses, what he does here to the Sibelius Fifth borders on the unconscionable -- an interpretation seemingly borne of a misunderstanding of what makes this a symphony for the ages for all who love it, alas!  All that being said, the performance is coherent, consistent, and mostly enjoyable. DG's fantastic digital rendering of a great orchestra is also a consolation here.
"I think the problem with technology is that people use it because it's around.  That is disgusting and stupid!  Please quote me."
- Steve Reich

jlaurson

#310
Update: How about voting on favorite Versions of individual Symphonies, which I'll include here, too??

It looks like the new Ashkenazy Sibelius cycle on Exton is finnish(ed), too!:

Symphonies 4 & 5, Less outrageously expensive in the UK

Symphony 2 & Tapiola, Swan of T. (UK)

Symphonies 1 & 3, in the UK

Symphonies 6 & 7, UK

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
updated - Maazel Pittsburgh & Rozhdestvensky added. Wanatabe also added.
Thanks to DavidRoss for the reminder. Thanks to Drasko for Wanatabe hint!

Here's a list of (almost) all available Sibelius Symphony cycles. (Very roughly sorted (top to bottom) acc. to my personal favorites. [Some I have not heard - e.g. Segerstam I, Berglund I & III, Jaervi I, Collins, Saraste...]
"Berglund II", despite being next to 'last', is safely recommendable... I merely added it late.
Oramo's Sibelius (Erato/Warner) has not (yet?) been issued in a box. Davis III (LSO live), good but overrated, isn't out as a box, either... Davis II I won't include unless I have to. (I.e. to fill the fourth spot in the last row.)
I've found the Sixtus Ehrling/Stockholm cycle still exists (at least on German Amazon). Anyone have that?

Thanks to Wurstwasser who also found the Ehling cycle on HMV.
I'll include it once I find three more cycles to complete a row.


Daverz pointed out the Rozhdestvensky cycle, available in Japan.
What was I thinking when I wrote "Birmingham" instead of "Bournemouth" for Berglund II? Probably "Rattle". :-) Corrected, thanks to Peregrine








V. Ashkenazy I,
Philharmonia
Decca ~$40,-
C. Davis I,
Boston SO
Philips v.1 ~$18,-
A. Gibson,
Royal ScO
Chandos (oop)
L. Segerstam I,
Danish NSO
Chandos/Brilliant ~$46,-
N. Jaervi I,
Gothenburg SO
BIS ~$62,-
A. Collins,
LSO
Decca (Japan) ~$44,-
L. Maazel II,
Pittsburg SO
Sony ~$25,-

L. Segerstam II,
Helsinki PO
Ondine ~$54,-
C. Davis I,
Boston SO
Philips v.2 ~$18,-
H.v. Karajan / Kamu,
Berlin Phil
DG ~$24,-
L. Bernstein,
NY Phil
Sony ~$50,-
P. Berglund I,
Bournemouth SO
Royal Classics (oop)
J.P. Saraste,
Finnish RSO
Finlandia (oop) ~$60,-
G. Rozhdestvensky,
Moscow RSO (Japan only)
Russia Ed. ~$26,-
O. Vanska,
Lahti SO
BIS ~$65,-
L. Maazel,
Vienna Phil.
Decca ~$24,-
K. Sanderling,
Berlin
Berlin Cl. ~$33,-
Sir J. Barbirolli,
Hallé Orchestra
EMI ~$35,- (sale)
P. Berglund II,
Helsinki PO
EMI ~$35,- (sale)
C. Davis III,
LSO v.1-v.2-v.3-v.4
LSO live (4 à ~$16,-)
S. Oramo,
CoBirm.O

Erato ~£30,-
(Europe only)
H. Blomstedt,
S.F.SO
Decca ~$31,-
P. Sakari,
Iceland SO
Naxos ~$36,-
N. Järvi II,
Gothenburg SO
DG ~$56,-
P. Rattle,
Birmingh.SO
EMI ~$34,-
P. Berglund III,
Chamber OoE

Finlandia ~$40,-
(Germany only)
C. Davis II,
LSO

RCA ~$41,-
A. Watanabe,
Japan PhilO

(Japan only)
Denon ~$31,-


mark4mich

I heard Sibelius Piano Quintet on XM yesterday and would love to get a recording of it. Any recommendations?

jlaurson

Quote from: mark4mich on May 08, 2009, 06:31:12 AM
I heard Sibelius Piano Quintet on XM yesterday and would love to get a recording of it. Any recommendations?

Not like there's a LOT of choice (three recordings that I know of, two of which I have).




I prefer the new BIS recording
by a slight margin over the
Chandos and, if memory serves
me right, the Pihtipudas Quintet,
too.

John Copeland

Quote from: Wurstwasser on March 29, 2009, 07:52:56 PM
I avoid buying CDs with Mr. Davis because of his humming. He's annoying.

Forget the humming.  Davis is one of the finest Sibelius interpreters out there.

jlaurson

Quote from: John on May 08, 2009, 07:51:54 AM
Forget the humming.  Davis is one of the finest Sibelius interpreters out there.

Forget the humming, indeed. But I have come to think of Davis as one of the finest Sibelius misinterpreters out there.

And I say that not just for being coy: I think his Boston recordings sound terrific, as does a Dresden Staatskapelle 2nd I have. But I think he shoots right by the core of Sibelius. Too empathetic, to grandiose. Quotes like these don't help rectify that aural view:

QuoteI look in the mirror and see the ruthlessness of life, and nevertheless find the strength to go on with it. Sibelius was happy in a crowd and depressed when he was alone. I'm like that, too.
QuoteThe second movement [of the 4th Symphony] begins gaily enough, but then something bewildering and horrible happens. To me, the last pages of the score describe Death, with no false consolations. It's like a sleigh that has run off the road. Sibelius' loved ones lie around it, dead, and he feels he has let them down.
QuoteThat is Sibelius, smoothing over the graves of his loved ones with his bare hands.
QuoteThere, you have an agonized Sibelius riding through the night because he cannot sleep. Along the way, he sees goblins and ghosts and breaks out in a cold sweat. And then the sun comes up. The nightmare is over, at least for a while. (On "Night Ride & Sunrise")
Be that as it may, his are my favorite misinterpretations, next to a select few recordings of Barbirolli, Bernstein, and Celibidache.

John Copeland

Well, I would like to listen to select Davis / Sibelius again to argue my point...but alas, I'm in Collection rebuild mode  :( , and it'll be a while before I get round to it.  But when it comes to Sibelius, all points are worth considering, and I'll bear it in mind when I do get round to it. :)

karlhenning

TTT (puzzled that it drifted to page, I dunno, 5 or 6 . . . .)

Tapkaara

I will be flying to Finland this September to attend the annual Sibelius Festival at Sibelius Hall in Lahti, Finland. On the menu are works of the composer's middle period, including the 2nd, 3rd and 4th symphonies. There will also be tone poems, orchestral songs and chamber music the last day of the festival.

Of course, it will be the Sinfonia Lahti playing the music under their (out-going) music director Jukka Pekka Saraste.

I can't wait to be bombarded by Sibelius in his home country...

bhodges

Wow, that sounds like great fun!  PS, we have a number of people from Finland here, who can give you advice on your trip, I'm sure.  :D

--Bruce

Tapkaara

Quote from: bhodges on July 21, 2009, 11:13:53 AM
Wow, that sounds like great fun!  PS, we have a number of people from Finland here, who can give you advice on your trip, I'm sure.  :D

--Bruce

I'm 30 and I've had an on-going interest in Finland for about half my life, yet this will be my first trip there. I leave Sept. 7th...it can't come soon enough.

I wonder if any of the resident Finns have done the festival before...