The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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Elgarian

Quote from: Tapkaara on July 21, 2009, 10:56:51 AM
I will be flying to Finland this September to attend the annual Sibelius Festival at Sibelius Hall in Lahti, Finland. On the menu are works of the composer's middle period, including the 2nd, 3rd and 4th symphonies. There will also be tone poems, orchestral songs and chamber music the last day of the festival.

Now that sounds exciting! How many days does the festival last, Erik?

Tapkaara

Quote from: Elgarian on July 21, 2009, 12:04:13 PM
Now that sounds exciting! How many days does the festival last, Erik?

It is three evenings (Thursday, Friday, Saturday) and one morning (Sunday) of chamber works. Here are the details:

http://www.sinfonialahti.fi/sibelius/en_GB/sibelius

Elgarian

Quote from: Tapkaara on July 21, 2009, 12:10:16 PM
It is three evenings (Thursday, Friday, Saturday) and one morning (Sunday) of chamber works. Here are the details:

http://www.sinfonialahti.fi/sibelius/en_GB/sibelius

Looks like a double dose on Saturday - lunchtime piano recital in addition to the evening's orchestral frolics.

Well, it looks terrific. Really stunning thing to do.

vandermolen

I have the cycle with Sixten Ehrling conducting the Royal Stockholm Orchestra it is on warner and the recordings are from 1952/53. It is my favourite cycle - the one I listen to most.

Favourite individual performances.

1 Kajanus

2 Beecham on BBC Legends or Biddulph

3 Okko Kamu (DGG)/Kajanus

4 Beecham (Dutton - in a class of its own)

5 Sargent BBC SO

6 Anthony Collins

7 Beecham/Koussevitsky

Tapiola: Mazel/Segerstam

Four Legends: Thomas Jensen, Royal Danish SO
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Tapkaara

Quote from: vandermolen on July 21, 2009, 02:25:18 PM
I have the cycle with Sixten Ehrling conducting the Royal Stockholm Orchestra it is on warner and the recordings are from 1952/53. It is my favourite cycle - the one I listen to most.

Favourite individual performances.

1 Kajanus

2 Beecham on BBC Legends or Biddulph

3 Okko Kamu (DGG)/Kajanus

4 Beecham (Dutton - in a class of its own)

5 Sargent BBC SO

6 Anthony Collins

7 Beecham/Koussevitsky

Tapiola: Mazel/Segerstam

Four Legends: Thomas Jensen, Royal Danish SO

Those are interesting and, for the most part, somewhat obscure choices. And when I say obscure, I mean not many people even now about them or go on to list them as favorites for that matter.

Kajanus conducted a great performance of Pohjola's Daughter in the 1930s that I have on disc. It is very intense, and the power of the performance makes up for the rather scratcy mono sound.

rubio

Quote from: vandermolen on July 21, 2009, 02:25:18 PM
4 Beecham (Dutton - in a class of its own)


Interesting list you got there! Does this Beecham Dutton performance exist on CD? I only found symphonies 2, 6, and 7 by Beecham available on Dutton. I found no. 4 as part of The Beecham Collection on Somm. Do you know if this is the same performance as the Dutton?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QRctFBOsL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

"One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain" Bob Marley

DavidRoss

Quote from: Tapkaara on July 21, 2009, 10:56:51 AM
I will be flying to Finland this September to attend the annual Sibelius Festival at Sibelius Hall in Lahti, Finland. On the menu are works of the composer's middle period, including the 2nd, 3rd and 4th symphonies. There will also be tone poems, orchestral songs and chamber music the last day of the festival.

Of course, it will be the Sinfonia Lahti playing the music under their (out-going) music director Jukka Pekka Saraste.

I can't wait to be bombarded by Sibelius in his home country...

http://www.sinfonialahti.fi/sibelius/en_GB/concerts/ Sounds terrific--wish I were joining you.  Nice that opening night includes Luonnotar and other songs performed by Helena Juntunen.  I've never heard Luonnotar live but that alone is enough to make me consider attending!  And note that there's yet another Henning involved:  Henning Kraggerud, the fiddler who'll be playing the VC!

"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

jlaurson

#327
Vandermolen's Favorites as available (or not) on Amazon:
(Correct me where I linked to the wrong version.)

Quote from: vandermolen on July 21, 2009, 02:25:18 PM
I have the cycle with Sixten Ehrling conducting the Royal Stockholm Orchestra it is on warner and the recordings are from 1952/53. It is my favourite cycle - the one I listen to most.

Favourite individual performances.

1 Kajanus (OOP)

2 Beecham on BBC Legends or Biddulph

3 Okko Kamu (DGG)/Kajanus (OOP)

4 Beecham (Dutton - in a class of its own) (same as on KOCH?)

5 Sargent BBC SO

6 Anthony Collins

7 Beecham/Koussevitsky

Tapiola: Mazel/Segerstam

Four Legends: Thomas Jensen, Royal Danish SO
[couldn't find that anywhere -- but rubio did.]

DavidRoss

Quote from: jlaurson on July 22, 2009, 04:22:46 AM
Vandermolen's Favorites as available (or not) on Amazon:[/size


Or you could just buy a cycle by Vänskä, Bernstein, Blomstedt, Segerstam, or Berglund and have even better performances of them all.  ;)

Pssst.  The Kajanus recordings were available as torrents, last I looked.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

karlhenning

Quote from: DavidRoss on July 22, 2009, 04:44:12 AM
Or you could just buy a cycle by Vänskä, Bernstein, Blomstedt, Segerstam, or Berglund and have even better performances of them all.  ;)

(* sips hot tea *)

Elgarian

Erik and I had some conversation on another forum about symphony cycles. I'd had the Naxos Icelandic set for some years, which seemed adequate if not brilliant. But then I bought the RCA Colin Davis LSO set (not LSO Live) because it was incredibly cheap, and because the Penguin Guide heaped accolades upon its accolades. But I lost interest in it when I found the 1st and 2nd symphonies in that set over-glossy, smooth, and grindingly slow - to an extent that made the Naxos Icelanders sound significantly more enthusiastic, interestingly lively, and more suitably raw.

Is that just me? Does everyone else think the RCA Davis set is the bees' knees, like Penguin?

rubio

"One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain" Bob Marley

Brian

rubio, that's one for the bad cover art thread!

Quote from: Elgarian on July 22, 2009, 06:36:30 AM
Erik and I had some conversation on another forum about symphony cycles. I'd had the Naxos Icelandic set for some years, which seemed adequate if not brilliant. But then I bought the RCA Colin Davis LSO set (not LSO Live) because it was incredibly cheap, and because the Penguin Guide heaped accolades upon its accolades. But I lost interest in it when I found the 1st and 2nd symphonies in that set over-glossy, smooth, and grindingly slow - to an extent that made the Naxos Icelanders sound significantly more enthusiastic, interestingly lively, and more suitably raw.

Is that just me? Does everyone else think the RCA Davis set is the bees' knees, like Penguin?
I think most critics have tended to agree that the LSO/RCA Davis set stinks. On the last page, Jens Laurson said he'd only list it if he had to, Victor Carr writes as follows on ClassicsToday:
QuoteColin Davis' RCA Sibelius cycle must be ranked among the most unnecessary recording projects of all time. Having already recorded a universally lauded set of Sibelius symphonies and tone poems with the Boston Symphony for Philips, Davis' new undertaking constitutes a sad dilution of his previous success, with its lackluster Symphony No. 2, bland Nos. 3 & 6, and lifeless No. 5. The conductor does replicate his earlier achievements in Nos. 1 & 7, and to a lesser degree in No. 4. However, the London Symphony for the most part doesn't meet the challenge of its Boston competition--certainly not in the shocking ensemble lapses that disfigure parts of the drably rendered Lemminkäinen Suite and Fifth Symphony, which, along with the deadly dull Kullervo form the artistic nadir of the set. The remaining tone poems (with the exception of a confused Pohjola's Daughter) proceed well enough, but some, such as Finlandia, En Saga, and The Oceanides, have been done better by the likes of Järvi, Berglund, Bernstein, and of course, Davis himself. RCA's engineering is of variable quality, with some strangely murky sonics afflicting the Lemminkäinen and Kullervo. Considering that Davis' earlier cycle is available on two Philips Duos, this new one, even with its low price and extra items, is no bargain.

and David Hurwitz says things like, "Their previous cycle for RCA was very spotty indeed, slackly played and not at all well recorded, particularly in the Third Symphony, and this remake [LSO Live] makes handsome amends for what otherwise would have remained a blot on the career of one of our great Sibelius conductors and on an orchestra with as rich a tradition in this music as any."

DavidRoss

Quote from: Elgarian on July 22, 2009, 06:36:30 AM
Erik and I had some conversation on another forum about symphony cycles. I'd had the Naxos Icelandic set for some years, which seemed adequate if not brilliant. But then I bought the RCA Colin Davis LSO set (not LSO Live) because it was incredibly cheap, and because the Penguin Guide heaped accolades upon its accolades. But I lost interest in it when I found the 1st and 2nd symphonies in that set over-glossy, smooth, and grindingly slow - to an extent that made the Naxos Icelanders sound significantly more enthusiastic, interestingly lively, and more suitably raw.

Is that just me? Does everyone else think the RCA Davis set is the bees' knees, like Penguin?
No, it's not just you.  I think the Davis's Sibelius mostly sucks (at least insofar as it's possible for Sibelius's music to be less than splendiferous)...and for exactly the same reasons you fault it.  The old Davis/BSO recordings (long praised by many and reason enough for taking British criticism of British conductors with a huge shaker of salt) were partly responsible for my mistaken belief that Sibelius was a dull, superficial, late Romantic--which delayed my appreciation of his magnificent music for decades!   :'( 

I also think that the Naxos set by Sakari and the Icelanders is one of the best!  (Should have put it in my list of favorite cycles above).  And also for the same reasons you cite; I love the raw energy in this set!

"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Elgarian

Thanks for these replies, Brian and David. All very reassuring in a way, and it makes me wonder what the guys at Penguin were thinking of when they festooned it with medals.

Erik'll be interested to read your comments too, I'll bet.


[Anyone want to buy a cheap RCA set of Sibelius symphonies?]

Tapkaara

Quote from: DavidRoss on July 22, 2009, 08:09:43 AM
No, it's not just you.  I think the Davis's Sibelius mostly sucks (at least insofar as it's possible for Sibelius's music to be less than splendiferous)...and for exactly the same reasons you fault it.  The old Davis/BSO recordings (long praised by many and reason enough for taking British criticism of British conductors with a huge shaker of salt) were partly responsible for my mistaken belief that Sibelius was a dull, superficial, late Romantic--which delayed my appreciation of his magnificent music for decades!   :'( 

I also think that the Naxos set by Sakari and the Icelanders is one of the best!  (Should have put it in my list of favorite cycles above).  And also for the same reasons you cite; I love the raw energy in this set!



Aha, another who thinks the Davis/BSO set is...OVER-RATED? I ike this forum more and more every moment.

I would never suggest that set to anyone trying to get into Sieblius. Davis is asleep at the wheel too much throughout it. And I can ndver forgive him for the lack of horns during the famous 'swan theme' of the final movement of the 5th symphony. You can hardly hear them, and it's perhaps THE moment that most people wait for in this work.

karlhenning

There's much else of Davis's recordings which I like very well;  but his BSO recording of Debussy had me temporarily convinced that La mer was duller than dishwater.

Tapkaara

Of course, Davis/LSO Live is another story...this is an excellent cycle. I've never bothered with his middle cycle on RCA due to the uniformly bad reviews.

DavidRoss

Quote from: Tapkaara on July 22, 2009, 08:57:21 AM
Aha, another who thinks the Davis/BSO set is...OVER-RATED? I ike this forum more and more every moment.

I would never suggest that set to anyone trying to get into Sieblius. Davis is asleep at the wheel too much throughout it. And I can ndver forgive him for the lack of horns during the famous 'swan theme' of the final movement of the 5th symphony. You can hardly hear them, and it's perhaps THE moment that most people wait for in this work.
We're always glad to have another Sibelius fan aboard, dude!  (I see you're from Lakeside--no doubt y'all have suffered the same frightening growth the past few decades that's beleaguered North County, I presume?  Is Dudley's Bakery still in business?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

karlhenning

Quote from: Tapkaara on July 22, 2009, 09:10:36 AM
Of course, Davis/LSO Live is another story...this is an excellent cycle.

Yes, I should expect so.