The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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Tapkaara

#400
Quote from: DavidRoss on July 23, 2009, 03:29:57 PM
Okay, Bruce (right?  Bruce?) -- I played through this 2nd and I sure get what you're talking about.  To me, Segerstam's conception is very expansive and subjugates structure to the beauty of the sounds--particularly the HPO winds and brass, splendidly refurbished since Berglund recorded his cycle with the same orchestra back in the '80s.  It's grand and lush, but not especially dramatic.  From my perspective it works reasonably well, but it flags a bit in the fourth movement.  Where he really ought to hold more tension, via crisp attacks in the brass, strings, and timpani, he's too soft instead of edgy.  Instead of energy building to a climax, he lets things drift a bit and get somewhat...er...flaccid.

I think Segerstam is striving for some deep, spiritual introspection--informed, perhaps, by looking forward to the fourth symphony--but it seems a bit out of place, at least for those accustomed to the tightening tension of more overtly dramatic interpretations, like Bernstein/NYPO, Szell/RCO, or Barbirolli/RPO.  I don't think it's bad...just different; but I can certainly see how a listener expecting a blazing statement of symphonic drama would be disappointed by that finale.  Such listeners would definitely be better served by one of the three just mentioned--and they should definitely stay away from what is becoming my favorite recording of the second, Bernstein's last with the WP: a glorious example of everything wrong with the excessive, indulgent Lenny in his later years...and everything right as well--in spades!

You can call me Erik.  ;)

Well, at least I know I'm making things up in my head. I'm encouraged that I'm not the only one who finds this performance to be, as you put if, flaccid.

You had some great points. Things sound rounder, cushier and more flowy as opposed to tense, moody and snappy. It is as if Segerstam is going for a more introspective approach...he is trying to get to the deep down soul of the music. But I don't think symphony is about the little nuances as much as, say, the 4th. I see this work as a more extroverted, Romantic piece, and it needs all of the sizzling energy you can bring to it. So focusing on its softer side is not the way to go. (It would be like trying to emphasize the softer side of Le Sacred du printemps...why on EARTH would you want a cushy, safe performance of that??)

Yeah, I agree about the ending. That great ending (one of the best in music, I think) has no momentum or profundity in Segerstam's hands. What a shame. It's just one weird, unappealing performance in general.
 
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Renfield

Speaking of the 4th, the first 4th I truly, deeply (insert melancholic violin solo) loved was Karajan - but not by any means the DG. It's the 1953 Philharmonia 4th on EMI, still my favourite. The DG version was too wall-of-sound for me to start with, although I do appreciate it now.

Tapkaara

Quote from: Renfield on July 23, 2009, 05:08:09 PM
Speaking of the 4th, the first 4th I truly, deeply (insert melancholic violin solo) loved was Karajan - but not by any means the DG. It's the 1953 Philharmonia 4th on EMI, still my favourite. The DG version was too wall-of-sound for me to start with, although I do appreciate it now.

I was actually unimpressed with Kajaran's 4th the first time I heard it, but I have since warmed up to it. I know what you mean by too "wall of sound" like. Notwithstanding, Karajan keeps the momentum moving pretty well, and it is a fine performance.

karlhenning

Quote from: DavidRoss on July 23, 2009, 03:29:57 PM
Okay, Bruce (right?  Bruce?)

I owe you (and Brucebhodges, I mean) an apology for creating a certain amount of confusion, Dave.  I didn't remember Erik's actual name, he being a new acquaintance, and me being awful at new-names-attached-to-new-user-IDs.  So my referring to him as "new Bruce" was an allusion to the Philosophy Department at the University of Wollamaloo, where a chap named Michael is called Bruce just to keep it clear:

http://www.youtube.com/v/_f_p0CgPeyA

Hot enough to boil a monkey's bum, in here.

DavidRoss

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 24, 2009, 04:48:21 AM
I owe you (and Brucebhodges, I mean) an apology for creating a certain amount of confusion, Dave.  I didn't remember Erik's actual name, he being a new acquaintance, and me being awful at new-names-attached-to-new-user-IDs.  So my referring to him as "new Bruce" was an allusion to the Philosophy Department at the University of Wollamaloo, where a chap named Michael is called Bruce just to keep it clear:

Roight! Thanks for clearing that up, myte.  Off to my sheep-dipping class, now.  Today we're going to dip the sheep in a lovely dark chocolate sauce punctuated with raspberries and blanched almonds. 

And apologies to new Bruce...er, Erik...for calling him "Bruce."  It is a poofterish sort of name (excepting our own bhodges, of course!), and rules number 2, 5, and 7 of the Snowshoed Sibelius fan club, drill team, and sheep-dipping squad clearly state, "No poofters."  (Not that there's anything wrong with that--but that's another iconic television program all together.)

Meanwhile, on topic (at last!) lest the off-topic post police banish this message to the outback:  After listening to Segerstam's 2nd I later followed it with his 6th--and loved it!  (Capsule review on the "What's tickling your ears now?" thread) 
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

vandermolen

Rubio - this is my favourite performance of Sibelius Symphony No 4:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Elgarian



Found this offered by MDT at just under £20 yesterday, and I'm seriously considering it. Although I don't think I ever heard Barbirolli play any Sibelius, this comes from the era when I was discovering Sibelius, (and indeed attending some of Sir John's Halle concerts), so there are additional reasons for trying it, to see how it fits, today.

As far as I can discover, his version of the 1st is regarded as a cracker; and this might be a nice to way to get it - with the others thrown in effectively as bonuses.

DavidW

I find the cycle to be fairly consistent, so if you like one you should like the rest. :)

vandermolen

Quote from: Elgarian on August 03, 2009, 12:18:39 AM


Found this offered by MDT at just under £20 yesterday, and I'm seriously considering it. Although I don't think I ever heard Barbirolli play any Sibelius, this comes from the era when I was discovering Sibelius, (and indeed attending some of Sir John's Halle concerts), so there are additional reasons for trying it, to see how it fits, today.

As far as I can discover, his version of the 1st is regarded as a cracker; and this might be a nice to way to get it - with the others thrown in effectively as bonuses.

I have this set and recommend it warmly. Barbirolli was a great conductor especially in Elgar, Vaughan Williams and Sibelius.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

jlaurson

Quote from: vandermolen on August 03, 2009, 07:37:55 AM
I have this set and recommend it warmly. Barbirolli was a great conductor especially in Elgar, Vaughan Williams and Sibelius.

I would recommend it for its great (as in: extraordinary, but also as in: very fine) personality. Not necessarily to set and Sibeliean standard.
At a good price, it's one of the 'essential supplemantary' Sibelius cycles.

Elgarian

Thanks for the comments, folks. Bearing your comments in mind, and my own Barbirolli-ish inclinations, I think at this price I'll be daft not to get it.

Tapkaara

Quote from: Elgarian on August 03, 2009, 09:49:21 AM
Thanks for the comments, folks. Bearing your comments in mind, and my own Barbirolli-ish inclinations, I think at this price I'll be daft not to get it.

Barbiolli's foray in the the Sibelius Second with the Royal Phil on Chesky is often listed as the be-all-and-end-all recording of the work. I've not heard these Hallé recordings (believe it or not!), but if they are anything like his S2, Elgarian should be a happy camper.

jlaurson

#412
 Ashkenazy Sibelius cycle on Exton is finnish(ed), too! But the discs can be difficult to to get outside Japan.

Symphonies 4 & 5, Less outrageously expensive in the UK

Symphony 2 & Tapiola, Swan of T. (UK)

Symphonies 1 & 3, in the UK

Symphonies 6 & 7, UK

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Oramo's Sibelius (Erato/Warner) has not (yet?) been issued in a box. Davis III (LSO live) has just been released as a box.
I've found the Sixten Ehrling/Stockholm cycle still exists (at least on German Amazon). Anyone have that?

Thanks to Wurstwasser who also found the Ehling cycle on HMV.
I'll include it once I find three more cycles to complete a row.


Daverz pointed out the Rozhdestvensky cycle, available in Japan.





V. Ashkenazy I,
Philharmonia
Decca ~$40,-
C. Davis I,
Boston SO
Philips v.1 ~$18,-
A. Gibson,
Royal ScO
Chandos (oop)
L. Segerstam I,
Danish NSO
Chandos/Brilliant ~$46,-
N. Jaervi I,
Gothenburg SO
BIS ~$62,-
A. Collins,
LSO
Decca (Japan) ~$44,-
L. Maazel II,
Pittsburg SO
Sony ~$25,-

L. Segerstam II,
Helsinki PO
Ondine ~$54,-
C. Davis I,
Boston SO
Philips v.2 ~$18,-
H.v. Karajan / Kamu,
Berlin Phil
DG ~$24,-
L. Bernstein,
NY Phil
Sony ~$50,-
P. Berglund I,
Bournemouth SO
Royal Classics (oop)
J.P. Saraste,
Finnish RSO
Finlandia (oop) ~$60,-
G. Rozhdestvensky,
Moscow RSO (Japan only)
Russia Ed. ~$26,-
O. Vanska,
Lahti SO
BIS ~$65,-
L. Maazel,
Vienna Phil.
Decca ~$24,-
K. Sanderling,
Berlin
Berlin Cl. ~$33,-
Sir J. Barbirolli,
Hallé Orchestra
EMI ~$35,- (sale)
P. Berglund II,
Helsinki PO
EMI ~$35,- (sale)
C. Davis III,
LSO v.1-v.2-v.3-v.4
LSO live (4 à ~$16,-)
S. Oramo,
CoBirm.O

Erato ~£30,-
(Europe only)
H. Blomstedt,
S.F.SO
Decca ~$31,-
P. Sakari,
Iceland SO
Naxos ~$36,-
N. Järvi II,
Gothenburg SO
DG ~$56,-
P. Rattle,
Birmingh.SO
EMI ~$34,-
P. Berglund III,
Chamber OoE

Finlandia ~$40,-
(Germany only)
C. Davis II,
LSO

RCA ~$41,-
A. Watanabe,
Japan PhilO

(Japan only)
Denon ~$31,-



Drasko

Quote from: jlaurson on October 16, 2009, 05:44:57 PM
Update: How about voting on favorite Versions of individual Symphonies, which I'll include here, too??

Don't think I have clear cut favorites for all symphonies, some I like:

#1 Berliner Sinfonie-Orchester / Kurt Sanderling
#3 Helsinki Festival Orchestra / Olli Mustonen
#4 Wiener Philharmoniker / Lorin Maazel
#7 Leningrad Philharmonic / Evgeny Mravinsky

p.s. Isn't it Sixten, and not Sixtus Ehrling?

The new erato

Quote from: Drasko on October 17, 2009, 12:55:06 AM


p.s. Isn't it Sixten, and not Sixtus Ehrling?
Yep; he was Swedish, not Roman!  ;)

matti

Quote from: erato on October 17, 2009, 07:52:24 AM
Yep; he was Swedish, not Roman!  ;)

IS Swedish - still going strong!

The new erato

Quote from: matti on October 18, 2009, 10:45:55 AM
IS Swedish - still going strong!
As in new recordings? He has given us much valuable, but I admit to thinking he was dead since I cannot seem to remember stumbling across his name for a long time.

matti

Quote from: erato on October 19, 2009, 12:12:51 AM
As in new recordings? He has given us much valuable, but I admit to thinking he was dead since I cannot seem to remember stumbling across his name for a long time.

No idea about his current recording projects, but rumours of his death are premature. He recently conducted a concert in Helsinki. http://yle.fi/rso/show_page.php?page=2199&cmd=series&ID=391&lang=eng

John Copeland

"If someone writes about my music and finds, let us say, a feeling of nature in it, all well and good. Let him say that, as long as we have it clear within ourselves, we do not become a part of the music's innermost sound and sense through analysis ... Compositions are like butterflies. Touch them even once and the dust of hue is gone. They can, of course, still fly, but are nowhere as beautiful..."

Very sound advice.   ;D

vandermolen

I have never been much of a fan of Colin Davis's Sibelius symphony recordings (LSO or Boston SO) - finding them largely unengaging and overrated. However, the CD of tone poems below was an absolute revelation. I bought it very cheaply on Amazon UK (you can find it there for under £4) and I can't stop playing it.  I would go so far as saying that these are top recommendations for all the works featured - wonderfully warm and atmospheric recordings and terrific performances from Davis and the LSO. I shall have to revise my views of this conductor! Even the ubiquitous 'Finlandia' gripped me and Karelia, Oceanides and Tapiola are all riveting:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).