The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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Sergeant Rock

#460
Quote from: vandermolen on January 31, 2010, 09:15:40 AM
...but delighted yesterday to pick up Kullervo Symphony (Colin Davis) for £1.00. I don't usually like Davis' Sibelius but this sounds good.

It is good, even great (I'm assuming you bought the LSO live recording). I still prefer (probably alone in this) his earlier performance on RCA. They are very different. Timings don't tell all but you'll notice the RCA is much slower. I think that works especially well in the first and last movements, perhaps not so well in the Allegro Vivace third movement.

         RCA        LSO LIVE
I        16.18      14.22 
II       15.58      14.04
III      26.01      23.22
IV       10.27      10.18
V        11.53      9.46

The RCA really inspired Hurwitz poetically  ;D  "the drably rendered Lemminkäinen Suite and Fifth Symphony, which, along with the deadly dull Kullervo form the artistic nadir of the set."  But he gave the new version 10/10

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9605

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

karlhenning


vandermolen

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 01, 2010, 04:46:27 AM
It is good, even great (I'm assuming you bought the LSO live recording). I still prefer (probably alone in this) his earlier performance on RCA. They are very different. Timings don't tell all but you'll notice the RCA is much slower. I think that works especially well in the first and last movements, perhaps not so well in the Allegro Vivace third movement.

         RCA        LSO LIVE
I        16.18      14.22 
II       15.58      14.04
III      26.01      23.22
IV       10.27      10.18
V        11.53      9.46

The RCA really inspired Hurwitz poetically  ;D  "the drably rendered Lemminkäinen Suite and Fifth Symphony, which, along with the deadly dull Kullervo form the artistic nadir of the set."  But he gave the new version 10/10

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9605

Sarge

Very interesting and yes, it was the LSO live version I have.  Generally I have been very disappointed by Davis' Sibelius symphony recordings but I really enjoyed the RCA CD of tone poems including Tapiola.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Renfield

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 01, 2010, 04:35:49 AM
I do love it. It's not quite as perversely bent-out-of-shape as his DG Second...but almost  ;D  One correction, though: Bernstein's DG Fifth is with the Vienna Phil, not New York.

Oops! I had his 'Pathetique' in mind when I wrote that (even though my comments did refer to the Sibelius).

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

#464
Important message for us Sibelians: Finland is now on Google Street View.
Sibeliustalo/Sibelius Hall
Ainola (the house) must be here somewhere
EDIT: I think it can be seen from here: http://bit.ly/bnaCkc Haha, I'm peeing in my Järvenpääntie's.

greg

Quote from: Wurstwasser on February 08, 2010, 09:43:17 PM
Important message for us Sibelians: Finland is now on Google Street View.
Sibeliustalo/Sibelius Hall
Ainola (the house) must be here somewhere
EDIT: I think it can be seen from here: http://bit.ly/bnaCkc Haha, I'm peeing in my Järvenpääntie's.
Nice! Looks like a whole other world...

So, since I've finally really gotten into the 7th symphony (the only other symphony I've liked before this one was the 4th), what might I like by Sibelius that might sound similar?

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Greg on February 13, 2010, 06:37:09 PM
Nice! Looks like a whole other world...

So, since I've finally really gotten into the 7th symphony (the only other symphony I've liked before this one was the 4th), what might I like by Sibelius that might sound similar?

Have you tried Tapiola? See if you can find Karajan or Maazel.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

DavidRoss

Quote from: Greg on February 13, 2010, 06:37:09 PMI've finally really gotten into the 7th symphony (the only other symphony I've liked before this one was the 4th), what might I like by Sibelius that might sound similar?
I thought the same as Sarge, Greg--start with Tapiola.  (Can't recommend Karajan, however.)  Keep at it and you'll eventually find that most of the symphonic poems (Pohjola's Daughter, Luonnotar, En Saga, etc.) and symphonies 5, 6, 3, 1, and even 2 are also great--and so is most of the incidental music (i.e. Pelleas & Melisande) and the violin concerto and much else, as well!
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

greg

I listened to it this morning- had listened to it several times before, but it's probably been a couple years since my last listen, so I didn't remember a note of it.

So, upon listening, my opinion turned out very good in a deceptive way- I didn't feel like, "WHHHOOOOOOOOOAAA!!!!!! THIS IS AMAZING! BEST THING EVER! EXACTLY WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR!!!!" Instead, I felt like, "hmmm... nice... interesting... sounds good..." etc. which might not sound very favorable, but it's best to remember that practically all of my favorite music started off this way. Then, I just have the feeling that it would be nice to keep on listening whenever I want to, and it grows on me.

Just wondering... anyone else ever notice having first impressions which might be a little TOO favorable, and then the enthusiasm fizzles out over time?  :D

Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich

#469
Quote from: Greg on February 14, 2010, 05:24:48 PMJust wondering... anyone else ever notice having first impressions which might be a little TOO favorable, and then the enthusiasm fizzles out over time?  :D
Yes, but that doesn't say anything. Everything happened. Bad became good. Good became bad. Bad stayed bad and good stayed good. Tapiola, it's a lot about the mood and the 1000 incarnations of the main theme. It'll probably grow on you; least I can say it works for many people :) For me, the Blomstedt SFSO is the one and only.
Easier and devastating: You want to get the Wood Nymph now! It's such a forgotten work I cannot understand why. Once again I read a sibelius book of a music professor, again the Wood nymph is not mentioned. Crazy.

jlaurson

#470

greg

Quote from: Wurstwasser on February 15, 2010, 08:28:03 AM
Yes, but that doesn't say anything. Everything happened. Bad became good. Good became bad. Bad stayed bad and good stayed good. Tapiola, it's a lot about the mood and the 1000 incarnations of the main theme. It'll probably grow on you; least I can say it works for many people :) For me, the Blomstedt SFSO is the one and only.
Easier and devastating: You want to get the Wood Nymph now! It's such a forgotten work I cannot understand why. Once again I read a sibelius book of a music professor, again the Wood nymph is not mentioned. Crazy.
I'll check that one out.  8)

Brian

Quote from: Greg on February 13, 2010, 06:37:09 PM
So, since I've finally really gotten into the 7th symphony (the only other symphony I've liked before this one was the 4th), what might I like by Sibelius that might sound similar?

At first, when I only knew Symphonies 2, 5 and 7, it seemed a lot to me as if the earlier symphonies were just preparations for the Seventh, that 7 unifies various ideas from the earlier ones in a Great way. Now, though I definitely still notice ways in which 7 condenses and unifies the previous six, I've fallen in love with ... well, all but No. 4. So maybe you shouldn't look to me for advice.  ;D  I do definitely see similarities between 4 and Tapiola for you to explore.

Scarpia

Quote from: Brian on February 15, 2010, 02:12:17 PM
At first, when I only knew Symphonies 2, 5 and 7, it seemed a lot to me as if the earlier symphonies were just preparations for the Seventh, that 7 unifies various ideas from the earlier ones in a Great way. Now, though I definitely still notice ways in which 7 condenses and unifies the previous six, I've fallen in love with ... well, all but No. 4. So maybe you shouldn't look to me for advice.  ;D  I do definitely see similarities between 4 and Tapiola for you to explore.

I think 4 is the only Sibelius symphony that does not come together for me.  Oddly, it gets less and less convincing as I get more familiar with it.  3 keeps getting better and better.  Tapiola, is a piece that only works in the right performance (for me).  Karajan's circa 1982 recording on DG is the most convincing for me (particularly the apparent blizzard scene).


DavidRoss

Quote from: Scarpia on February 15, 2010, 02:21:08 PM
I think 4 is the only Sibelius symphony that does not come together for me. [...]Tapiola, is a piece that only works in the right performance (for me).
Too bad.  Both are at the summit of the repertoire, for me and many others who appreciate them.  I had the pleasure of hearing Berglund's recording of the 4th with the COE just last night.

Quote from: Wurstwasser on February 15, 2010, 08:28:03 AMYou want to get the Wood Nymph now! It's such a forgotten work I cannot understand why.
Perhaps because it's an early work that doesn't begin to compare with his mature style?  Too much of it sounds like the Karelia pageant muzak crossed with Nightride & Sunrise--interesting for its proto-minimalist style, perhaps, but otherwise mostly dismissible.  Sibelius himself seems to have dismissed it, as he never revised it into a coherent whole, as he did with some of his youthful works, nor did he publish it.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Franco

#475
Aside from a few recordings of Sym 2 & 4 and the well known tone poems I don't have any Sibelius symphonies. 

If you were to suggest one complete set that would be a good basic reference set, who would it be?

I was thinking of Vanska, Berglund or Segerstam. 

Brian

I have Berglund's on EMI (Helsinki) - got it for $30 - have heard the First (good), Second (good), Fifth (VERY good), Sixth (extraordinary).

I have also heard some from the Segerstam (Ondine) - Third (my preferred Third!), Fifth (slow opening, too fast in the final coda, great in between), Seventh (my preferred Seventh!), and the coupled Violin Concerto (pretty terrible, sadly).

And some from Vanska - Second (finale not as superexciting as I'd like, the rest is good), Fourth (though I'm not a fan of the symphony, this is a great recording), Fifth (VERY good).

Sanderling (Berlin Classics, Brilliant) has a miracle of a Sixth Symphony.

~~~~~~

DavidRoss - Karelia, pageant muzak? But it makes me happy  :(

Scarpia

#477
Quote from: Franco on February 16, 2010, 05:48:24 AM
Aside from a few recordings of Sym 2 & 4 and the well known tone poems I don't have any Sibelius symphonies. 

If you were to suggest one complete set that would be a good basic reference set, who would it be?

I was thinking of Vanska, Berglund or Segerstam.

I have Vanska and it is nice to have it as an alternative but it is not my favorite by far.  The Maazel/Pittsburgh is my choice overall (I prefer it to the earlier Maazel/VPO).  There is also a nice set with the SFO.





There's also the Jarvi.  I got it because I loved his recordings of the tone poems, haven't listened to the symphonies yet but I am optimistic.


Franco

Thanks for those suggestions, I forgot about the Blomstedt/SF, I had considered that one as well.

Scarpia

Quote from: Franco on February 16, 2010, 06:23:43 AM
Thanks for those suggestions, I forgot about the Blomstedt/SF, I had considered that one as well.

Less "High voltage" than some others.  But an interesting view of the music.