The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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jlaurson

Quote from: Brian on October 13, 2010, 11:04:31 PM
I only just requested this CD for a MusicWeb assignment, when David Hurwitz at ClassicsToday posted a review which agrees with mine in nearly every assessment. Alas! This is a difficult assignment: to write an opinion when you've already written it on GMG, and somebody else has already written it on another website...

Difficult? It's called self-plagiarism, and it works like a charm. Required: Pen. (Keyboard). Confidence. A minimal modicum of writing ability. And shameless self-referentialism.

Brian

Quote from: jlaurson on October 14, 2010, 12:37:08 AM
Difficult? It's called self-plagiarism, and it works like a charm. Required: Pen. (Keyboard). Confidence. A minimal modicum of writing ability. And shameless self-referentialism.

Well my main concern is the mischievous temptation to write a PS saying "I know I said exactly the same things as Dave Hurwitz, but here's a link proving that I said them all first."  ;D

Benji

Quote from: Brian on October 14, 2010, 01:01:35 AM
Well my main concern is the mischievous temptation to write a PS saying "I know I said exactly the same things as Dave Hurwitz, but here's a link proving that I said them all first."  ;D

Or maybe you're..... pause for suspense.... the same person!

If I disappear now and forever, let it be known that I uncovered the shocking truth!  :o

karlhenning

Ben? Ben? You still there? . . .

Benji

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 14, 2010, 03:53:32 AM
Ben? Ben? You still there? . . .

Whether or not I am 'all there' is a matter for debate, but I am most definitely present. For now.  :-X

Brian

Quote from: Benji on October 14, 2010, 01:38:31 AM
Or maybe you're..... pause for suspense.... the same person!

Based on our taste, I am very similar to D.H., but with less irrational mania for quasi-Mahlerian post-romantics. On the other hand, I AM the same person as Roger Ebert. When I was a film critic for my university paper, I always had to read Roger's review before submitting mine, to make sure that I hadn't come up with exactly the same opinions, insights, stresses, and jokes he had!

jlaurson

Quote from: Brian on October 14, 2010, 06:06:16 AM
Based on our taste, I am very similar to D.H., but with less irrational mania for quasi-Mahlerian post-romantics. On the other hand, I AM the same person as Roger Ebert. When I was a film critic for my university paper, I always had to read Roger's review before submitting mine, to make sure that I hadn't come up with exactly the same opinions, insights, stresses, and jokes he had!

You don't want to compare yourself to D.H., in any way. Trust me. You don't deserve that... no one does.
On the other hand you don't deserve to compare yourself to Roger Ebert. Yet. We'll talk in 20 years, after
a career's worth of Ebert-like insights, grace, wit, and skill.  ;D

Brian

Quote from: jlaurson on October 14, 2010, 09:17:52 AM
You don't want to compare yourself to D.H., in any way. Trust me. You don't deserve that... no one does.
On the other hand you don't deserve to compare yourself to Roger Ebert. Yet. We'll talk in 20 years, after
a career's worth of Ebert-like insights, grace, wit, and skill.  ;D

I just said that I agree with them in varying (but very large) percentages of cases, or that we have similar taste. You don't need insights, grace, wit or skill to like, say, Philip Seymour Hoffman better than Steven Seagal (though you probably need insight to like Berglund's Sibelius better than Inkinen's, or whatnot).

Brian

I'm crossposting this relevant post from the Listening Thread.

Today's listening log - as you can see, I have broken my week-long Sibelius fast (just 2 listens in the last 11 days) with a binge.

Sibelius: Symphony No 1. Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra; Leif Segerstam
Sibelius: Symphony No 2. Boston Symphony Orchestra; Colin Davis
Sibelius: Symphony No 3. Helsinki Festival Orchestra; Olli Mustonen
Sibelius: Symphony No 4. Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra; Paavo Berglund
Sibelius: Symphony No 5. Iceland Symphony Orchestra; Petri Sakari
Sibelius: Symphony No 6. Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra; Lorin Maazel
Sibelius: Symphony No 7. Royal Philharmonic Orchestra; Thomas Beecham

A different conductor for each symphony - and not a dud in the lot! I'll have to write more later, but the significant discoveries are: I'm warming to Mustonen's eccentric Third, Sakari's reading is a shock new contender in my Quest for the Perfect Fifth, and I finally, finally enjoyed the Fourth Symphony for the first time today. Whew!

It's been an illuminating marathon. Maybe after dinner I should plunge into the tone poems. Or (I can't believe I'm saying this!) listen to the Fourth again.

DavidRoss

Quote from: Brian on October 14, 2010, 09:35:37 AM
Sakari's reading is a shock new contender in my Quest for the Perfect Fifth
Interesting.

Quote from: Brian on October 14, 2010, 09:35:37 AM
...and I finally, finally enjoyed the Fourth Symphony for the first time today. Whew!
I'm very, very happy for you. ;D  8)
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

jlaurson


heard a very ungainly 5th with the vienna so under fabio luisi. no wonder the composer continues to baffle continental audiences.
wonder how it might have been if mikko franck had conducted, as originally scheduled. was luisi's first time with the work, and from the sound of it, the orchestra's, too.

Scarpia

Listened to Segerstam's 7th with Helsinki (Ondine) today.  A worthy performance, but sound which is a little too bright and forward for my taste.  One of those recordings which allows you to hear every voice, but doesn't let all of the voices blend into a whole the way to would in a fine concert hall.  Still, I enjoyed it quite a bit. 

Listened to the piece twice in a row, and it is characteristic of Sibelius that more pleasure came from the second listening than the first.  The structure of the music is complex from every point of view, and novelty is not necessary for pleasure.  With Bax, for instance, I find the opposite is true.  When I have listened to a piece of his twice in a row the effects that seem very deep the first time lose some of their luster on a second hearing.  I'm far less familiar with Bax, so I will reserve judgement until I feel more confident that I am appreciating the music more fully.

Back to the Sibelius 7, at this point the two recordings that stand out in my mind are the recent Vanska on BIS and Karajan's wonderful recording from the 70s.  The first is probably channeling the spirit of Sibelius more directly, but Karajan's recording was the first that allowed me to make sense of the music, and finds so many splendid sonorities in Sibelius' score. 

DavidRoss

Reposted here from the "What's spinning now" thread:

Quote from: Brian on October 18, 2010, 04:46:32 AM
Sibelius is not something you can try and get... it gets you. It's like a zombie. I spend months at a time not listening to Sibelius at all, and even not liking it, and thinking it's tacky and fake, and then it comes up behind me and bites me in the neck and I stagger around drunkenly for a month looking like the guy in the attached picture. I think what did it was that I saw No 5 live in concert knowing nothing about it or what to expect, and the finale sent my brain into the stratosphere and I've been trying to find that same level of rapture ever since and can't find it anywhere else. In other words, Sibelius is like crack.  ;D
Much like my experience.  Only in my case it took decades for me to appreciate him.  I partly blame the music history idiots who don't get him and so call him a "nationalist" composer and offer Finlandia as representative.  I didn't care for the jingoistic Finlandia and it gave me the wrong idea right off the bat.

I never heard him in concert and only rarely heard something on the radio that almost always seemed soporific.  Somehow I bought Ormandy's 2nd and 5th and never warmed to them.  They languished unplayed for years. 

When our younger son fell in love with classical music, I started building a CD collection that would expose him to its breadth.  Some folks I respected had so much admiration for Sibelius that I figured he should be included.  I also figured there was a good chance that I was the one missing something.  I bought Maazel's WP box set--mostly because it was cheap--and listened to the cycle several times over the next few weeks.

It began to get under my skin.  Passages in the 4th, the 5th, the 6th, and the 7th especially began to haunt me.  I pulled out the old Ormandy LPs and in the 5th I began to recognize the strange cellular buildup and to see in him the roots of minimalism.  I started listening differently and wondered what else I was missing. 

Because the later symphonies were the ones that began to bewitch me, I bought the Sony Royal Edition Bernstein/NYPO box of 4,5,6,& 7.  The 5th gave me goosebumps...again and again, setting something in my soul astir that no other music had ever reached.  I was hooked.

Crack is an apt analogy.  Over the next few years I bought recording after recording, seeking the holy grail: that perfect set guaranteed to produce epiphanies every time I popped it into the CD player.  I haven't found it...or maybe I've found several.

Your tale of hearing the 5th live reminds me of the last time I heard it, with the Pittsburgh (who had been schooled in it by Maazel) under Andrew Davis.  It was a terrific performance, and after the last chord faded and Davis turned to the audience, my wife and I and a couple of dozen other folks jumped to our feet and applauded wildly while most of the people sitting nearby just looked at us strangely while applauding politely.  I think they didn't get it, and I'm not surprised, since it took me so long to get it, too.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Benji

Quote from: DavidRoss on October 18, 2010, 06:15:44 AM
Crack is an apt analogy.  Over the next few years I bought recording after recording, seeking the holy grail: that perfect set guaranteed to produce epiphanies every time I popped it into the CD player.  I haven't found it...or maybe I've found several.

Oh, didn't see that coming! Is it really apt? haha Are you selling your belongings and those of others. Are you stealing from your family to buy more Sibelius? Are we to look out for your book What's eating David Ross?

There is help available! ;)

karlhenning

(* chortle *)

And, Ben: check PM!

DavidRoss

Quote from: Benji on October 18, 2010, 06:28:01 AM
Oh, didn't see that coming! Is it really apt? haha Are you selling your belongings and those of others. Are you stealing from your family to buy more Sibelius? Are we to look out for your book What's eating David Ross?

There is help available! ;)
Ha!  From one fellow Sibelius junkie to another... ;D 8) :-*

"And in a related story, today in Minneapolis a gang of crazed Sibelius junkies held Osmo Vänskä and the Minnesota Orchestra hostage for several hours, forcing them to play through the entire symphony cycle under threat of being forced to watch Lady Gaga videos."
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Scarpia

#756
Listened today to Segerstam's recording of Sibelius 1 (Ondine).  This is a performance I have basically no reservations about, he seems to have hit the nail on the head at every juncture.  The awe-inspiring sonorities at the very end of the finale are gorgeously performed, and quite a bit slower than I am accustomed, I think.

One contrast that stands out, having listened to the first symphony soon after having listened to the 7th, his how much more grand the gestures in the first symphony are, compared with the 7th.  The 7th features continuously evolving themes, where the first symphony has themes that are introduced at well defined stages in the progression of the music.  The first also has very striking harmonies, but often coming in a dramatic, sudden or unexpected transition.   The thing that strikes me about harmonic progressions in the 7th is that the different voices or sections of the orchestra seem to come to them as though independently and discordantly, the scope of the event becoming clear only after the transition has rippled through the orchestra.   Sibelius wrote wonderful music at every stage of his career, but the range of his development is impressive, and it is clear that the brilliant colors of his earlier music had to be sacrificed to create the more subtle hues of his late music.

DavidRoss

Quote from: Brian on September 30, 2010, 01:17:09 PM

Thanks for the review, Brian.  Doesn't seem like a likely acquisition for me, but who knows?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

jlaurson

Symphonies 1 & 3, now Symphony 2 from this set:


J. Sibelius
Symphonies & Kullervo
Petri Sakari, Iceland SO
Naxos Wite Box


Still a few available for a good price (better than the clunky 4-disc version, actually!) on Amazon.
The slim White Box (with full booklet) is so much neater than the jewel-case mess. And the Kullervo not half bad.


DavidRoss

Quote from: jlaurson on October 26, 2010, 07:00:43 AM
Symphonies 1 & 3, now Symphony 2 from this set:


J. Sibelius
Symphonies & Kullervo
Petri Sakari, Iceland SO
Naxos Wite Box


Still a few available for a good price (better than the clunky 4-disc version, actually!) on Amazon.
The slim White Box (with full booklet) is so much neater than the jewel-case mess. And the Kullervo not half bad.
Underrated, methinks.  One of my faves.  More characterful than most, with a rugged rusticity that seems appropriate given JS's love for ancient epics and nature's sublimity.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher