The Snowshoed Sibelius

[Brian]

Underrated, methinks.  One of my faves.  More characterful than most, with a rugged rusticity that seems appropriate given JS's love for ancient epics and nature's sublimity.

The Kullervo or the whole set? I have Sakari's 4-7.
And as a side note which I also posted in the listening thread, for the Inkinen release's booklet, Keith Anderson simply copy-and-pasted his notes for Sakari, including a grammar mistake and a possible factual error (he claims Symphony No 8 was completed and destroyed in 1929). To his credit, there are two sentences of new material listing the instruments in each symphony. 

[DavidRoss]

The whole set.

[karlhenning]

Is that the same Kullervo which was one of the very first wave of Naxos recordings?  I should revisit it . . . I really don't think I've listened to it since that year I first bought it.

[Brian]

Released in 1997 and so not strictly in "the very first wave"...

DavidRoss: my physical copy of Sakari's 4/5 has arrived, so I'll now play No 5 in CD sound quality and see if it still stacks up as a "contender."

[karlhenning]

Released in 1997 and so not strictly in "the very first wave"...

Well, one of my first ever Naxos purchases, anyway : )

[Scarpia]

Listened to Sibelius Symphony No 6 today (Segerstam's Helsinki recording on Ondine, but that is the subject of a different post).  I was just reminded of what a wonderful work this is, and how the movements do not stand on their own, but contribute to a greater whole.   The metaphor that came to mind is the symphony is like a railroad journey where each leg of the trip leaves you on a deserted station, waiting for the next train to come and take you to the next stop on your way.  You are not at ease until all four legs of the symphonic journey are complete.

The first movement  is really one of my favorite pieces in the symphonic repertoire.  It begins with that marvelous counterpoint among the high strings, later joined by reeds and lower strings.  But rather than building to the rich, sensuous  climax you might expect if you were listening to something by Brahms, it is interrupted by more lively music, both happy and sad at the same time, that leads to those odd, repetitive figures on strings, tossing the same phrase back and forth, back and forth.  It seems puzzling until strains of legato melody start to waft in and tie it all together.  The end of the movement seems to be building to a dramatic finish, which becomes surprisingly halting, punctuated with mysterious silences.   And the end, we are at a different place than when we started, but not "home" by any means.  The next two movements are similar, in that they make me feel that we have gone to a different place, but that we are not at a resting place.  Only the finale brings (ironically quiet) resolution.

In the end, the piece gives that wonderful feeling that "it doesn't get any better than this."

[Brian]

If you have M forever's email address, do PM it to me. I've only just today realized that the Seventh Symphony is built on a quote from Beethoven's Fifth and, although he has probably known this since he was 6, I want to share the excitement of discovery with him.

[Scarpia]

If you have M forever's email address, do PM it to me. I've only just today realized that the Seventh Symphony is built on a quote from Beethoven's Fifth and, although he has probably known this since he was 6, I want to share the excitement of discovery with him.

It is?

[Brian]

It is?

This morning I am having doubts. I heard it clearly at the Philharmonia last night (No 5 w/ Dohnanyi) but now I'm going to have to examine the scores to make sure it's not just a coincidence and there is enough evidence to back the claim up. More precisely, I know there is one quotation in the Seventh at a critical juncture which M discussed on this board (the final bars), but I would like to break down the basic themes and search for Beethoven links in each, because if they are not there, then it is likely to be a coincidental resemblance.

[Brian]

It's time to play who said that?

Who said this?

"An incalculable store of what is past proves immanently to be inadequate, though in its own time and for the consciousness of its own period this may not have been the case. It is the course of time that unmasks these deficiencies, yet they are objective in quality and not a matter of shifting taste. –Only the most advanced art of any period has any chance against the decay wrought by time. In the afterlife of works, however, qualitative differences become apparent ... Hopes for renaissances of Pfitzner and Sibelius, Carossa or Hans Thoma, say more about those who cherish the hope than about the enduring value of the works of such souls."

[jlaurson]

It's time to play who said that?

Who said this?

"... Hopes for renaissances of Pfitzner and Sibelius, Carossa or Hans Thoma, say more about those who cherish the hope than about the enduring value of the works of such souls."

a bit too easy; pretty obviously from the same man who called Sibelius "the world's worst composer", no?

[Brian]

a bit too easy; pretty obviously from the same man who called Sibelius "the world's worst composer", no?

No, but a fellow whom that man knew well, at least intellectually.

[Brian]

It is my understanding that the mystery man in question also said, though I don't have the direct quote, that Sibelius' symphonies were composed on the level of an amateur who refused to take music lessons.

[Sergeant Rock]

Who said this?

Theodore Adorno

Sarge

[Brian]

Theodore Adorno

Sarge

From Aesthetic Theory.

Does anybody know of an English translation of Rene Leibowitz' book "Sibelius, the Worst Composer in the World"? The original French work is right here at the British Library, but I may not be the world's best translator.

[jlaurson]

From Aesthetic Theory.

Does anybody know of an English translation of Rene Leibowitz' book "Sibelius, the Worst Composer in the World"? The original French work is right here at the British Library, but I may not be the world's best translator.

Oops. Meant Adorno. Quoted Leibowitz. It's been so long that I've seen someone quote Adorno to project intellectual prowess, I was completely thrown off. His writings on music must be my most disdained books on my shelves. A reasonably above-average intellect with a style unreasonably beyond-redemption. By the time you get to the modest kernel of meaning of any one of his obtuse sentences, you're so exhausted that you forget to question how insightful (or not) that very sentence just was. In any case, Adorno's opinion about Sibelius is as inane and childish as Gould's about Mozart. But at least Gould didn't damage Mozart (apart from his recordings. Ha!). Adorno's moronic statement probably plays some part in the reluctance of the continent to even consider Sibelius as a worthy composer. Even Karajan couldn't pierce the mantle of ignorance that still hangs over the ears of these audiences with regards to the great Finn.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Along with most of his chamber music and piano music, unfortunately there is also breath-taking Snöfrid op.29 what tends to be in shadows. Great orchestral colors and awesome singing!

[Mirror Image]

Released in 1997 and so not strictly in "the very first wave"...

DavidRoss: my physical copy of Sakari's 4/5 has arrived, so I'll now play No 5 in CD sound quality and see if it still stacks up as a "contender."

This is not a good quality Kullervo to my ears. Here is one my favorite recordings of this massive work:

[asin]B000R3QZ22[/asin]

I also enjoyed Segerstam's recording on Ondine and Vanska's on BIS. Of course, Paavo Berglund blazed trails with his epic performance, so this shouldn't go without being mentioned.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

I want tunes in my Sibelius!

You don't notice tunes in 6th?  What about tremendously bursting main theme of the finale?

[Brian]

Oops. Meant Adorno. Quoted Leibowitz. It's been so long that I've seen someone quote Adorno to project intellectual prowess, I was completely thrown off. His writings on music must be my most disdained books on my shelves. A reasonably above-average intellect with a style unreasonably beyond-redemption. By the time you get to the modest kernel of meaning of any one of his obtuse sentences, you're so exhausted that you forget to question how insightful (or not) that very sentence just was. In any case, Adorno's opinion about Sibelius is as inane and childish as Gould's about Mozart. But at least Gould didn't damage Mozart (apart from his recordings. Ha!). Adorno's moronic statement probably plays some part in the reluctance of the continent to even consider Sibelius as a worthy composer. Even Karajan couldn't pierce the mantle of ignorance that still hangs over the ears of these audiences with regards to the great Finn.

It sounds like our experiences with him are similar. I was led to read Adorno by a quotation somewhere suggesting he held exactly the opposite views from mine, and digging through Aesthetic Theory the suspicion was confirmed. We disagree on everything; his arguments take on an obtuse, foggy hocus-pocus of professedly irrefutable logic which nevertheless seems quite clearly wrong: in other words, I haven't seen anything quite like Adorno outside of religious apologetics. As for his style, it seems to snap in and out of focus: every page or so there will be a moment where he sums up all his strength and explains his ideas in short, aphoristic sentences, and then things will blow out of control again and he will return to near-incomprehensibility. I'm not sure which is worse, because the excessive verbiage is more philosophically precise, but the best-written sentences are plagued with dubious metaphors and irrational generalizations.

Of course, your dismissive remark about "someone quot[ing] Adorno to project intellectual prowess" is not appreciated; I was reading his book and taking notes, like I occasionally do when I think it useful to know my enemies, and just cut-and-pasted that quote from the Word file to GMG.

That said, my original question still stands. Does anyone know of an English-language copy of Rene Leibowitz' book "Sibelius, the Worst Composer in the World"? The original French work is right here at the British Library, and if no English version exists I may have to translate it myself with the aid of my Parisian flatmate.