The Snowshoed Sibelius

[Brahmsian]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Alan, on Maazel's 4th.  Did you enjoy the liquid nitrogen container it came in? 

Happy to hear that you enjoyed the performance! 

[Renfield]

The shock of listening to Maazel's performance was a shock of recognition - of knowing that I myself have lived an equivalent of this music. I'm thinking of those times when the light (for whatever reason - serious illness, loss, etc) seems to have gone out of life permanently. So we live against that backdrop, and yet there are times when we momentarily forget, and out of the darkness something rises - a fond memory, a fleeting hope - and we clutch at it, only for it to disintegrate when we remember that after all, everything is still desperate, nothing has changed, life can never be the same again after this. I'm reminded of CS Lewis's words after the death of his wife: 'No one ever told me that grief feels so much like fear.'

[...]

And the only resolution possible in the 4th symphony is the one we get at the very end. No grand summing up. No bluster, no great Romantic gestures full of windiness and storm. Just open-ended. An acceptance that things are as they are, and life goes on.

That's it, those two paragraphs of yours nail it (as usual): that's the Sibelius 4th.


For what it's worth, that cold void at the symphony's heart that Maazel so intensifies (cf. 'liquid nitrogen') is something Karajan also puts me in touch with, in his way. For me, only he and Maazel have ever fully managed it.

My thanks to those who recommended it: Ray, Sarge, Karl, Renfield, and anyone else I might have missed. Even if everything else in the box is a dud, it's worth having it for this.

You're welcome. I'm just glad some good came out of that ludicrous liquid nitrogen metaphor! But besides the joke, this is surely a small thing, next to all the (Elgar, and other) recordings you've helped many of us (re)discover.

[Elgarian]

I've just completed 50 pages of close analysis of the relevance of the liquid nitrogen metaphor, ready for posting. And now you tell me it was a joke?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

For what it's worth, that cold void at the symphony's heart that Maazel so intensifies (cf. 'liquid nitrogen') is something Karajan also puts me in touch with, in his way. For me, only he and Maazel have ever fully managed it.

Yes, that cold void is there in the Karajan. I have always loved his interpretation. Alan's sensitive analysis is indeed excellent. I find the ending of the 4th not as neutrally open-ended, though. I have the sense of darkness closing in, with a bird crying a final cryptic farewell...

[vandermolen]

Nice to see Okko Kamu back doing Sibelius - I had not been aware of him for some time and rememember how highly regarded his DGG recording of Sibelius Symphony No 3 was (oddly Karajan never recorded this symphony, although he did all the rest I think).


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sibelius-Tempest-Lahti-Symphony-Orchestra/dp/B0055ISAFE/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1314350299&sr=1-1

[Sergeant Rock]

Nice to see Okko Kamu back doing Sibelius - I had not been aware of him for some time and rememember how highly regarded his DGG recording of Sibelius Symphony No 3 was (oddly Karajan never recorded this symphony, although he did all the rest I think).

That Third was an important part of Mrs. Rock's development as a Sibelian. I bought her the DG Kamu/Karajan box of LPs shortly after we met. Kamu conducted the first three symphonies. She liked 1 and 2 but fell absolutely in love with the Third. Wore it out 

Sarge

[karlhenning]

More love for the Third, here. Curiously, it's one of the few Sibelius symphonies which we've heard the band play live at Symphony Hall here in Boston!

[Renfield]

I've just completed 50 pages of close analysis of the relevance of the liquid nitrogen metaphor, ready for posting. And now you tell me it was a joke?

Of course it's a joke: everyone knows liquid helium is the new standard!


Re: the 3rd, I honestly wasn't too impressed by it until I heard Davis' Boston recording; now my 2nd favourite, after Rozh.

[Elgarian]

Of course it's a joke: everyone knows liquid helium is the new standard!

Headline: "Physicists ridicule suggestion that some performances of Sibelius's symphonies achieve musical temperatures below Absolute Zero."


Seriously though: it occurs to me that the purchase of multiple sets of Sibelius symphonies is paying off in ways I never contemplated. I thought I was trying to find more satisfying interpretations of the symphonies I already loved (1, 2, 3, 5). I didn't expect that by listening to alternative interpretations I'd actually find myself able to listen with deep satisfaction to symphonies that had remained impenetrable for several decades (4, 6, 7) . An elementary misconception, maybe - but better to learn it later than never.

[karlhenning]

Most gratifying, Alan.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I didn't expect that by listening to alternative interpretations I'd actually find myself able to listen with deep satisfaction to symphonies that had remained impenetrable for several decades (4, 6, 7) . An elementary misconception, maybe - but better to learn it later than never.

Lucky you. The one symphony still closed to me is 6. I had the same problem with RVW 5 - no drama there, so nothing at stake.... It took me decades - aided by some cognoscenti here on GMG - to discover the subtle tension that is actually there. I hope Sibelius 6 will reveal its secrets, too, one day!

[Elgarian]

I hope Sibelius 6 will reveal its secrets, too, one day!

I should explain that I haven't yet seriously tackled the 6th, Johan. But I listened half-heartedly to Rozhdestvensky's 6th the other day, and I could tell (even though too often distracted at the time) that the revelations there were likely to be just as telling as they had been with his 4th. It just wasn't the work that I'd thought it was, it seemed!

[vandermolen]

Lucky you. The one symphony still closed to me is 6. I had the same problem with RVW 5 - no drama there, so nothing at stake.... It took me decades - aided by some cognoscenti here on GMG - to discover the subtle tension that is actually there. I hope Sibelius 6 will reveal its secrets, too, one day!

No 6 is one of my favourites - I also think that it was one of Vaughan Williams's favourites too.  I first know it through Anthony Collins's fine old Decca Eclipse LP - a wonderful performance, so maybe worth trying to track it down - it has a unique atmosphere I think - I kind of wistful sadness (in places) I think and a wonderful sense of nature (like all Sibelius).  Thanks Sarge and Karl for your comments about Symphony No 3.  Sibelius becomes Sibelius in that symphony and I love the last movement.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I love the 6th also. But as with other listeners, it took me a while to figure out. It's a piece that gradually creeps up on you, not one that hits you over the head.

Sibelius wrote it under some early-music influence. He had been studying Renaissance polyphony (Palestrina in particular), and this shows up, above all in the opening several minutes. It's also one of those odd ducks, a multi-movement symphony without a real slow movement.

I think the 2nd mvt. of this symphony, with its shifting, mysterious, rippling character, is my all-time favorite Sibelius movement. On a trip to Karelia a few years ago, it kept popping into my head, almost as if springing from the landscape.

[eyeresist]

Sibelius wrote it under some early-music influence. He had been studying Renaissance polyphony (Palestrina in particular), and this shows up, above all in the opening several minutes. It's also one of those odd ducks, a multi-movement symphony without a real slow movement.

As far as I can tell, people never mention the obvious Classical character of the 3rd, which surprises me. You could easily pair it with a work of Mozart or Haydn.

[Sergeant Rock]

As far as I can tell, people never mention the obvious Classical character of the 3rd, which surprises me. You could easily pair it with a work of Mozart or Haydn.

Yes. That's how I hear it: it's Sibelius' classical symphony. And perhaps it was no coincidence that the performance that finally opened up the Sixth to me was the Philips recording conducted by Colin Davis, a great, great conductor of Haydn and Mozart.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Lucky you. The one symphony still closed to me is 6. I had the same problem with RVW 5...It took me decades...

Brothers in (not arms) but puzzlement. Those two symphonies eluded me for decades too as you know.

Sarge

[DavidW]

Brothers in (not arms) but puzzlement. Those two symphonies eluded me for decades too as you know.

Sarge

You're just full of confessions today Sarge!

[Sergeant Rock]

You're just full of confessions today Sarge!

I know....I've had some worries lately about the future of my soul and decided to start making amends 

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Brothers in (not arms) but puzzlement. Those two symphonies eluded me for decades too as you know.

Sarge

Yes, I know. The pain of it still haunts me...  So you have 'cracked' No. 6?! Which performance?