The Snowshoed Sibelius

[Brahmsian]

And . . . how may we help? 

For years, the Sixth has been my favorite of the seven. I love 'em all, but the Sixth is easily my favorite.

I love all of them, but the Sixth has also become my favourite over the last year or so.

[Brian]

Now I am as if transfixed, addicted.  I cannot listen to anything else but.  It contains, I believe, some of his happiest moments and also some of the gravest and most haunting and certainly passages that rate among his most transcendent.  Music critics run the gamut from thinking it haunting and troubling to one of his lightest, most carefree works!  The ending is certainly troubling, like a death that comes unseen and for which one is unprepared (inspired by the death of his brother, perhaps?  Or a premonition of his long silence to come?).  And yet, the whole seems so elusive, rather like a snack that you must keep on eating, precisely because it doesn't quite satisfy...

What do you need our help for? It seems to me that you are having a great time! You describe this piece perfectly - but then, a few years ago I got in a big debate with someone, on this thread, because I described the symphony as a tragedy. Your last sentence is perfect.

[Karl Henning]

Oh, did we argue, Brian?  Because, well, I don't know that I see it as a tragedy.

But, mine is not the only possible perspective here . . . .

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

And . . . how may we help? 

To begin with, Karl, you've provided some comfort - thanks! - by noting it's your favorite of the seven.   The sixth quite confounds and compels me - I feel like I could comfortably describe what Sibelius is up to or wants to convey or depict in his other works (rightly or wrongly!  - it's the comfort level that's key!).  But I don't feel like I understand what he's up to in the 6th and yet the work strikes me as being important, perhaps the most personal of his work.  All of this is terribly subjective, of course.  I listened to it four times today (so far).  Maybe a nice reassuring dose of Martinu or Poulenc will help. 

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

What do you need our help for? It seems to me that you are having a great time! You describe this piece perfectly - but then, a few years ago I got in a big debate with someone, on this thread, because I described the symphony as a tragedy. Your last sentence is perfect.

Thanks, Brian - I can't describe it as a great time - but it's an intriguing one.  Some listeners seek this kind (or comparable ones) of experience in music, but I can say for me this time it's a source of suffering - perhaps it's the tragic element you discern.  [Deleted rampant subjectivity]

[Florestan]

a few years ago I got in a big debate with someone, on this thread, because I described the symphony as a tragedy.

Oh, did we argue, Brian?  Because, well, I don't know that I see it as a tragedy.

No, Karl, it was I who debated with Brian.  Can't find the whole thing, though.

[Karl Henning]

Well, I am glad that it is not the case that I got into a Sibelian tussle with Brian, and it passed entirely from my awareness 

[Florestan]

Well, I am glad that it is not the case that I got into a Sibelian tussle with Brian, and it passed entirely from my awareness 

Found it. Actually, tussle is not the proper word. The whole thing was as gentle as a May breeze

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16746.msg426745.html#msg426745

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16746.msg426750.html#msg426750

[Karl Henning]

Thanks for the link, partly on its own merits, partly because it brought back into view this 

[North Star]

Thanks for the link, partly on its own merits, partly because it brought back into view this 

...If Shostakovich fades, so too can Henning...

[Florestan]

Thanks for the link, partly on its own merits, partly because it brought back into view this 

Ah, yes. Well, I do miss a good tussle now and then. 

[Karl Henning]

...If Shostakovich fades, so too can Henning...

[jlaurson]

To begin with, Karl, you've provided some comfort - thanks! - by noting it's your favorite of the seven.   The sixth quite confounds and compels me - I feel like I could comfortably describe what Sibelius is up to or wants to convey or depict in his other works (rightly or wrongly!  - it's the comfort level that's key!).  But I don't feel like I understand what he's up to in the 6th and yet the work strikes me as being important, perhaps the most personal of his work.  All of this is terribly subjective, of course.  I listened to it four times today (so far).  Maybe a nice reassuring dose of Martinu or Poulenc will help.

from: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/12/london-town-sibelius-lovers-frozen-dream.html

The Sixth Symphony was the most appreciated item on the bill: It's a much less often performed work than Symphonies Two, Five, and Seven, but every bit as moving. Its deceptive four movement outline suggests something relatively orthodox where there is no symphonic orthodoxy at all. The work barely has beginnings and it has even fewer ends. Between movements, there is scarcely enough of a signal to audience to start their coughing-cascades. The work has an aim, but the target of it never seems to be revealed; its principal feature might be the strange, intriguing attractiveness in an inverse Marilyn Monroe way: Very beautiful, but not at all pretty. Vanska, a Sibelian semaphore of astounding exactitude, led the LSO in a performance of perfect clarity and of a seamless, organic fit. Or at least perfect compared to the dog's breakfast most continental European orchestras make of Sibelius' intertwining lines of thought. The brief third movement was juicy, the finale fleet and of irresistible wit and detail.

[jochanaan]

I was in the local score library today, looking at Sibelius' Fifth Symphony.  Interestingly, the title page specified that this was a "symphony in one movement"!  I suppose that means that the various sections are to be played without pause--not just between the Tempo molto moderato and the Allegro moderato, but no pauses at all.  I've heard recordings where there is no break other than the written rests between the Andante mosso and the Allegro molto, but for acoustical reasons it's almost impossible to start the Andante immediately after the Piu presto ends; the Presto ends fff with the full orchestra, while the Andante begins pp with only woodwinds and horns.  One couldn't even hear the first bar or so of the Andante if there were no break!

What kind of breaks do the various recordings make?  Are there recordings where the break between Presto and Andante is minimal?

[Sergeant Rock]

What kind of breaks do the various recordings make?  Are there recordings where the break between Presto and Andante is minimal?

I can't recall a recording that had little or no break between those two movements. I haven't checked all my Fifths but the ones I did check just now had at least a five second break (both Maazel's, Berglund/COE, Blomstedt, Sakari, Segerstam, Järvi). I think it would sound very odd played attacca.

Sarge

[jochanaan]

I can't recall a recording that had little or no break between those two movements. I haven't checked all my Fifths but the ones I did check just now had at least a five second break (both Maazel's, Berglund/COE, Blomstedt, Sakari, Segerstam, Järvi). I think it would sound very odd played attacca.

Sarge

I agree.  It takes at least five seconds for the echoes to fade!

[Karl Henning]

In which case, I should interpret the attacca mark not as playing through the echo, but picking up just ahead af the echoes' quite dying out.  The music then has the feeling of moving on;  you don't have an Audience, start your coughing! break.

[jochanaan]

In which case, I should interpret the attacca mark not as playing through the echo, but picking up just ahead af the echoes' quite dying out.  The music then has the feeling of moving on;  you don't have an Audience, start your coughing! break.

True.  And if it's a live setting, the conductor and orchestra can stand or sit still without "breaking" their poses for the short pause (not break).

Some will ask, "What if they have page turns?"  Well, turning pages quickly and silently is a skill that orchestra players had better develop! I know from experience that one can turn a page silently without breaking a pose.

[Karl Henning]

Some will ask, "What if they have page turns?"  Well, turning pages quickly and silently is a skill that orchestra players had better develop!

One of my "to-do's" for my choir next year, is to teach them this skill!

[Moonfish]

I have been listening to this set for a while. It has some pretty interesting historical recordings. Well worth investigating if one likes to wander in the Sibelius soundscape!

review at: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/June11/Sibelius_233314.htm

[asin] B004VRO7ES[/asin]