The Snowshoed Sibelius

[Kullervo]

Surprises me that you say this. I hear the fourth movement as pretty inevitable after its predecessors. It's almost as though what's most co-ordinated and lyrical from the first three movements is making an attempt to bring light to this darkest of Sibelius' symphonies before it closes. It's very Mahlerian, in a way - I hear parallels between this final movement and the scherzo of Mahler's Fifth.

You think so? I thought the mixture of the two keys (I'm not really sure which exactly, but it sounds like two keys) lends it a farcical air. I would go so far as to say it sounds sick. (I apologize for the wording, but I can't really describe it any other way.)

[Lethevich]

There's actually some relevent information about the finale on Wikipedia (that thing just keeps getting bigger/more useful ):

Edit: URL fix.

[Mark]

I would go so far as to say it sounds sick.

Or perhaps, an attempt to laugh in the face of sickness? The whole work has a sick quality to it - you can imagine it on its deathbed. Then, at the last, an attempt at humour; one final moment of joviality (a little warped, maybe) before it 'dies'.

[AnthonyAthletic]

Just been through this set again (15cds), and again.  Can't get to grips of the two cds which are jam packed with Sibelius' lieder.  As dandy as Von Otter and Groop are, the songs just don't appeal at all and my interest was quickly lost.  'Till Havs' is still my favourite song but it needs to be in the male voice for me, that goes to a lot of these songs.

What say, I heard there's a huge project in the pipelines.  Anyone know who's doing what and are they starting from Scratch?  As the above set covers the majority of the orchestral works.  Hope the new project can justify an outlay, hope so.

[Lethevich]

Just been through this set again (15cds), and again.  Can't get to grips of the two cds which are jam packed with Sibelius' lieder.  As dandy as Von Otter and Groop are, the songs just don't appeal at all and my interest was quickly lost.  'Till Havs' is still my favourite song but it needs to be in the male voice for me, that goes to a lot of these songs.

What say, I heard there's a huge project in the pipelines.  Anyone know who's doing what and are they starting from Scratch?  As the above set covers the majority of the orchestral works.  Hope the new project can justify an outlay, hope so.

I almost bought that until I discovered that they were going to do complete volumes of each genre seperately. I'm going to buy the complete symphonies, tone poems and (depending on what their definition of it includes) incidental music volumes. That essential set is nice, but lacks quite a few tone poems, and only includes some of his incidental music, which is probably the strongest of his lesser known output. The misc. set also includes some discs of stuff that I am totally uninterested in.

[Mark]

What say, I heard there's a huge project in the pipelines.  Anyone know who's doing what and are they starting from Scratch?  As the above set covers the majority of the orchestral works.  Hope the new project can justify an outlay, hope so.

You referring to this: BIS - Sibelius Edition

I think it's re-releases of existing recordings, with new stuff recorded to fill in all the gaps. It'll all be finished by 2010. I'm looking forward to adding every note of Sibelius to my collection via this enterprise.

[AnthonyAthletic]

That's it,

I have most of the first two planned issues and I can see this doing my head in being a completist....just like this Sony 60cd Beethoven Box is doing my head in, I sit up at nights thinking about the other 25 cds to complete every note    Sad, but true.  But I suppose 60cds is a fair old slice of Beethoven, so I mustn't think too hard about the other works.

[Mark]

That's it,

I have most of the first two planned issues and I can see this doing my head in being a completist....just like this Sony 60cd Beethoven Box is doing my head in, I sit up at nights thinking about the other 25 cds to complete every note    Sad, but true.  But I suppose 60cds is a fair old slice of Beethoven, so I mustn't think too hard about the other works.

Do what I did with the Beethoven: get the Brilliant Classics box set (though go for the 100-CD version, which has the 15 discs of 'old cracklies' which I know you'll enjoy. ).

[Greta]

I guess everyone has a different 'biting point' with these symphonies; for me, it was No. 2 (I never really 'got' No. 1 for quite some time). And thanks for the link to the Maazel.

Yeah, same here, it took really the "right" performance for me to click with the 1st.

Marvin! Welcome to what shall be an amazing journey, I know it has been for me (and still is currently), I can honestly say Sibelius is right under Wagner for me (yes, I am also a Wagnerian!), tied with Mahler.  That's my "composer trifecta"

Heck, why not go in order, which is what I did - Kullervo and the Lemminkainen Legends suite (and I think En Saga?) come first - I love all Sibelius, but man, his early period is astoundingly good. Lusty, passionate, extremely attractive music. Kullervo has risen to become one of my favorite pieces - period. And Lemminkainen and the Maidens of Saari, it's way up there as well, it to my ears owes quite a debt to Tristan (depending on interpretation).

Right now, I would recommend Vanska/Lahti SO on BIS (with the original versions) or Segerstam/Helsinki PO on Ondine for Lemminkainen, great playing, lots of detail. I would like to hear Paavo Jarvi with Stockholm and especially Mikko Franck with Swedish RSO, who takes time to smell the roses.

Salonen also made great, colorful recordings of Kullervo, Lemminkainen and En Saga on Sony with Los Angeles, now OOP and really worth getting if you see them around.

Also the historical recordings such as Ormandy with Philadelphia (big first advocates of Sibelius in America), and Horst and Stein are pretty special.

Kullervo - man, there are a lot of great ones, and often also in the sets - I have a personal fondness for Saraste with Finnish RSO and Berglund with Helsinki PO - one thing I love about both of these is the very idiomatic playing. For me, I prefer the northern European orchestras in Sibelius, they have an honest, natural (rhythmically) way of playing the music that feels so right. He was quite influenced by folk music of the region, and occasionally the language, these elements the northern orchestras understand so well, it's in their blood.

The symphonies:

I'd go in order, you don't have to, but it's fun to see how he kept honing and refining his writing while still trying to express new moods and colors. Throw the tone poems in along the way - which isn't hard as they come as fillers quite often.

And don't be scared of the 4th - I mean it's forward-looking, but it's not Schoenberg, it's really beautiful, very inward. The symphonies aren't terribly long, but you'll want to come back often, as his writing is so condensed and his themes and form evolve so gradually and organically, they are fascinating works to revisit.

Don't forget Luonnotar, and his Songs either, the Violin Concerto (which you've probably heard), and do pick up one of the Works for Violin and Orchestra discs out there, his chamber orchestra stuff is perfectly delightful.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Can't get to grips of the two cds which are jam packed with Sibelius' lieder.  As dandy as Von Otter and Groop are, the songs just don't appeal at all and my interest was quickly lost. 

If you haven't already seek out Luonnotar. Of all the songs it's the most apt to convert someone. In its orchestral arrangement its scope is impressive. Equaling that of the symphonies. Though (admittedly) I wouldn't know how it rates w/ piano accompaniment.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

You think so? I thought the mixture of the two keys (I'm not really sure which exactly, but it sounds like two keys) lends it a farcical air.

That's how I view the last movement of the fourth too. Letting out some much needed steam after all that moroseness.

[longears]

Congratulations, Marvin--you're about to discover one of the very few GIANTS of music. A peerless craftsman with a singular voice, Sibelius is best discovered chronologically through the symphonies and tone poems and incidental music comprising his serious output.  This body of work reflects and reveals a spiritual journey; the quizzical Fourth, a turning point.

You might find the Sibelius thread on the old GMG forum interesting.

[Mark]

Greta, thank you for reminding me of my single favourite Sibelius work: the Violin Concerto. 0:)

This is an astonishingly good piece, with loads to hold your interest from the first notes to the very last. If I may, I'd like to recommend a recording which I suspect is more idiosyncratic than idiomatic - that with soloist, Ida Haendel, supported by Paavo Berglund and the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra (my home band ). The sound Haendel draws out of her violin is quite something, and I often liken her interpretation of this to Du Pre's of the Elgar Cello Concerto: neither is, perhaps, what the composers had in mind, but both blow you away with their intensity and depth of personal commitment.

[Lethevich]

Right now, I would recommend Vanska/Lahti SO on BIS

That's my favourite too, although I think even when they are reissued in the "edition" volume, they probably won't compare favourably with many others in price.

Edit: WTF - the projected release for the symphonies box is March 2010.

[matti]

Warning: for true hardcore Sibelians only. The narration is in Finnish and the film is boring. However, I'd like to see any footage from, say, Beethoven's funeral, if any were available. 

http://www.yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&g=4&ag=26&t=117

The last link "Sibeliuksen hautajaiset" will take you to Sibelius' funeral.

[karlhenning]

Ooh, I'll have to check that out later this week!

[Sergeant Rock]

Surprises me that you say this. I hear the fourth movement as pretty inevitable after its predecessors. It's almost as though what's most co-ordinated and lyrical from the first three movements is making an attempt to bring light to this darkest of Sibelius' symphonies before it closes. It's very Mahlerian, in a way - I hear parallels between this final movement and the scherzo of Mahler's Fifth.

I hear what is perhaps a more relevant parallel with the Finale of Mahler's Sixth...which ends, like the Sibelius Fourth, in an absolutely desolate A minor.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

The Oceanides is the one I obsess most over, too. The ones which I consider very important:

En Saga
The Dryad
Pohjola's Daughter
Finlandia
Night Ride and Sunrise
The Bard
Tapiola
The Oceanides
Luonnotar
Lemminkäinen Suite (a collection)
Scènes Historiques I & II (collections)
Valse Triste (not really a tone poem, but popular)

There are a few hidden gems...

The Wood Nymph Op.15 is one. It's a tremendous piece and I can't understand why it's not recorded more often. It should be in every Sibelian's collection.

Sarge

[Lethevich]

The Wood Nymph Op.15 is one. It's a tremendous piece and I can't understand why it's not recorded more often. It should be in every Sibelian's collection.

Hmm, I should've included that, especially with the recent discussion on it, but forgot

[Greta]

The recent LA Phil performance of the 2nd Symphony from their cycle is on iTunes already, actually I'm listening to it now...will have to comment later more.

There are interesting ideas, some which work less well than others, and crisp lean playing (horns and general brass sound really good), but the focus is more technical than emotional. Except for the Andante, which does get pretty intense. Generally quick tempos. Reminds me a little of Saraste's live recording.

It's kind of...well, odd, though according to M forever this was supposed to be the dud of the bunch anyway. I'd be interested to hear the others, hopefully they will be also be released.