Author Topic: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.  (Read 36364 times)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #80 on: April 10, 2013, 09:51:48 AM »
The Chicago Symphony Orchestra programmed Hartmann's Concerto Funebre a year or two back. They even performed it in my home town as a precursor to their Symphony Center concert, so I can legitimately say that one of the best orchestras in the world played a Hartmann piece within walking distance of my house! I only wish that they would also perform a Symphony, preferably the sixth, my favorite.

Nice! Who was the violinist?
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Offline Sef

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #82 on: April 10, 2013, 09:58:40 AM »
Who you like better, Hartmann or Henze?

Offline Sef

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #83 on: April 10, 2013, 10:06:30 AM »
Sorry to have made that assumption. Too bad you didn't get to see Concerto Funebre. Since you said the 6th is your favorite Hartmann symphony, what is about this particular symphony that draws into it? I just got through listening to the 6th yet again and, for me, it's an aggressive, angry piece of music that hits all the right buttons. I'm listening to Symphony No. 3 right now and I've got to say this is so damn good. Cato is correct in saying that all of the symphonies are great. Whatever I'm listening to at that moment is my favorite. 8)
For me the 6th just rolls along like a train picking up speed. It just doesn't let you go. A rollercoaster. Oh I don't know! Fierce and Angry but absolutely compelling from start to finish.
"Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it if one sits there and pities oneself?"

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #84 on: April 10, 2013, 10:08:19 AM »
Who you like better, Hartmann or Henze?

You unreconstructed bracketologist! ; )

If pressed, I should have to say Hartmann.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #85 on: April 10, 2013, 10:08:34 AM »
For me the 6th just rolls along like a train picking up speed. It just doesn't let you go. A rollercoaster. Oh I don't know! Fierce and Angry but absolutely compelling from start to finish.

That's how I feel about all of Hartmann's symphonies! :) Damn, listening to the 3rd now and this such a fine work. Some absolutely haunting moments. This may be my favorite. ;) :D
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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #86 on: April 10, 2013, 10:10:53 AM »
You unreconstructed bracketologist! ; )

If pressed, I should have to say Hartmann.

searing?  intense? Henze is much more worldly?

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #87 on: April 10, 2013, 10:11:52 AM »
Who you like better, Hartmann or Henze?

Hartmann, but I would like to get to know Henze's music better. What I admire about Hartmann is that he never completely lost sight of Romanticism even though it's quite distant especially as the symphonic cycle progresses. There are some incredibly lyrical, but quite eerie moments that occur. It's not all hot-air with no substance.
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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #88 on: April 10, 2013, 10:19:42 AM »
Hartmann, but I would like to get to know Henze's music better. What I admire about Hartmann is that he never completely lost sight of Romanticism even though it's quite distant especially as the symphonic cycle progresses. There are some incredibly lyrical, but quite eerie moments that occur. It's not all hot-air with no substance.

That DG set of Henze Symphonies 1-6 has what I imagine is a slightly less searing Hartmann? Henze doesn't have Hartmann's angst? I like the Henze for its 'objectivity', or, detachment, perhaps? Still, Hartmann does call!!

Offline Sef

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #89 on: April 10, 2013, 10:20:15 AM »
That's how I feel about all of Hartmann's symphonies! :) Damn, listening to the 3rd now and this such a fine work. Some absolutely haunting moments. This may be my favorite. ;) :D
Symphonies 6 through 8 are always on my playlist, so I would have to say that they are my favorites. Interesting comparison with Henze though. I only have one CD (Rattle conducting Symphony 7 and 9) which I like (and recommend) incredibly. But I always go back to Hartmann... :)
"Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it if one sits there and pities oneself?"

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #90 on: April 10, 2013, 10:41:36 AM »
That DG set of Henze Symphonies 1-6 has what I imagine is a slightly less searing Hartmann? Henze doesn't have Hartmann's angst? I like the Henze for its 'objectivity', or, detachment, perhaps? Still, Hartmann does call!!

I'll have to give that a try as it's cheap as hell as a Brilliant Classics issue. I would really like to get to know Henze better as I've become quite interested in mid-20th Century German orchestral music. Any works by Henze you think I should listen to first? I do own Henze's Undine, by the way, which I like quite a bit.
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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #91 on: April 10, 2013, 01:29:16 PM »
I'll have to give that a try as it's cheap as hell as a Brilliant Classics issue. I would really like to get to know Henze better as I've become quite interested in mid-20th Century German orchestral music. Any works by Henze you think I should listen to first? I do own Henze's Undine, by the way, which I like quite a bit.

Pick any Symphony 1-5, or, go in order. No.6 isn't the place to start. Maybe 4? 5?

1-2 are more 'playful'? 1-5 are pretty consistent throughout. 4 or 5 are the high points I think

I really wish there was more stuff like these five..

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2013, 02:14:30 PM »
Pick any Symphony 1-5, or, go in order. No.6 isn't the place to start. Maybe 4? 5?

1-2 are more 'playful'? 1-5 are pretty consistent throughout. 4 or 5 are the high points I think

I really wish there was more stuff like these five..

Thank you, synprrr. I'll check them out at some point.
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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2013, 03:48:31 PM »
I have the Wergo set. Sorry I can't compare it to Metzmacher but I can tell you the performces are very good, conducted by Kubelik (2, 4, 5, 6, 8 ), Leitner (3), Macal (7) and Rieger (1), and the 80s analog sound is wonderful: very natural with great clarity. It includes the "Gesangs-Szene" too with Fischer-Dieskau.

Sarge

+1 An essential acquisition for the Hartmann fan IMHO. An expensive set for sure, but worth every penny.
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Offline Cato

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2013, 04:29:42 PM »
Who you like better, Hartmann or Henze?

Hartmann kicks your id around like a 9-year old booting a soccer ball full of marshmallows.  8)

Henze's first 6 symphonies I recall hearing for the first time c. 40 years ago: the DGG set showed Henze conducting and looking very proletarian wearing a factory worker's shirt.   $:)   

The symphonies I have since revisited several times, but I have never been grabbed by them or their newer counterparts as deeply as by Hartmann's.

+1 An essential acquisition for the Hartmann fan IMHO. An expensive set for sure, but worth every penny.

Amen!   0:)
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2013, 04:49:29 PM »
Hartmann kicks your id around like a 9-year old booting a soccer ball full of marshmallows.  8)

Henze's first 6 symphonies I recall hearing for the first time c. 40 years ago: the DGG set showed Henze conducting and looking very proletarian wearing a factory worker's shirt.   $:)   

The symphonies I have since revisited several times, but I have never been grabbed by them or their newer counterparts as deeply as by Hartmann's.

If that's not a ringing endorsement for Hartmann, I don't know what is! :D

Amen! 0:)

I just think the set is better than Metzmacher. Here's a reply I wrote to a reviewer on Amazon about the Metzmacher set:

I just don't like Metzmacher's performances. This set seems to divide many listeners. I'll always prefer the Wergo set. The Kubelik performances alone in that set are worth their weight in gold. Metzmacher also needs a better orchestra who understands Hartmann's idiom from the inside out. I don't feel the Bambergers are that interested in this music. I also feel that Metzmacher is mediocre conductor. A good conductor knows how to dig deeper into the music. These performances just seem to be a run-through with nothing special going on inside of them.
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Offline Sef

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #96 on: April 11, 2013, 11:18:41 AM »
If that's not a ringing endorsement for Hartmann, I don't know what is! :D

I just think the set is better than Metzmacher. Here's a reply I wrote to a reviewer on Amazon about the Metzmacher set:

I just don't like Metzmacher's performances. This set seems to divide many listeners. I'll always prefer the Wergo set. The Kubelik performances alone in that set are worth their weight in gold. Metzmacher also needs a better orchestra who understands Hartmann's idiom from the inside out. I don't feel the Bambergers are that interested in this music. I also feel that Metzmacher is mediocre conductor. A good conductor knows how to dig deeper into the music. These performances just seem to be a run-through with nothing special going on inside of them.
I agree that the Wergo is a must, but for someone wanting to start to explore Hartmann without forking out $75 for the set then the kick ass Leitner recording of Symphony #6 can be had for under $9, plus you get a pretty decent Bruckner #6 thrown in!

 
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #97 on: April 11, 2013, 04:35:42 PM »
I agree that the Wergo is a must, but for someone wanting to start to explore Hartmann without forking out $75 for the set then the kick ass Leitner recording of Symphony #6 can be had for under $9, plus you get a pretty decent Bruckner #6 thrown in!

I bought my Hartmann set for $50, which isn't too bad. If a person wants to explore Hartmann's symphonies, I would recommend that Berlin Classics recording with Kegel first and then dive into the Wergo set if they like what they hear. Unfortunately, I bought the Metzmacher set first and wasn't totally convinced by the performances. The music, of course, I liked almost immediately as it's an idiom I'm very comfortable in. I'm glad there are better options available for the Hartmann symphonies.

Edit: For anyone interested in the Wergo set, keep an eye on Arkivmusic's website. They have the set for $44, but it's on back order right now. I wonder how long it takes them to replenish their stock? Anyone know?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 04:48:02 PM by Mirror Image »
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #98 on: April 11, 2013, 06:48:49 PM »
What I love about Hartmann is his honesty. He didn't follow any trends or any 'schools of thought.' The guy simply wrote magnificent music that came right from his heart. It can be brutal even barbaric, but I think his music is a reflection of human nature. This said, there are also so many tender moments in his music that give a completely different impression of what just occurred in the music. He followed his own muse and just when I think I have some kind of understanding of the music it turns around and completely punches me in the face and beats me down. :) He was such a great composer.
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Re: Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Recommendations.
« Reply #99 on: April 11, 2013, 07:39:58 PM »
Does anyone here think Hartmann's music would be difficult to perform? I know I do. Just listening to Symphony No. 2 'Adagio', for example, gives the orchestra a workout. I'm sweating just thinking about it. ;D
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 08:13:42 PM by Mirror Image »
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