R.I.P. Sir Roger Norrington - 91 years old

[Karl Henning]

I haven't listened to any of his recordings in ages as what I'd heard (and granted it wasn't much) didn't resonate with me.  As @brewski pointed out though, he did help to get the HIP movement going.  I must admit that early HIP recordings don't do anything for me. 

K

There's a case to be made that it was a while, finding its footing.

[Kalevala]

There's a case to be made that it was a while, finding its footing.

Years ago, a Towers Record employee encouraged me to buy a David Munrow CD; I think that I listened to it once.   

K

[brewski]

I haven't listened to any of his recordings in ages as what I'd heard (and granted it wasn't much) didn't resonate with me.  As @brewski pointed out though, he did help to get the HIP movement going.  I must admit that early HIP recordings don't do anything for me.   

K

Yes. Early HIP recordings weren't very satisfying because musicians weren't adept at playing the instruments. Not to mention, the caliber of the instruments themselves may have had something to do with that. (I'm not a HIP scholar, so I don't know.) Also, the HIP movement got rolling around the time of early digital recording, which didn't do any favors for some artists, either. No one's going to warm up to recordings — of anything — that are hard to listen to.

But as time has gone on, prowess on all fronts has increased dramatically. The HIP ensembles of today are spectacularly good.

[Roasted Swan]

Yes. Early HIP recordings weren't very satisfying because musicians weren't adept at playing the instruments. Not to mention, the caliber of the instruments themselves may have had something to do with that. (I'm not a HIP scholar, so I don't know.) Also, the HIP movement got rolling around the time of early digital recording, which didn't do any favors for some artists, either. No one's going to warm up to recordings — of anything — that are hard to listen to.

But as time has gone on, prowess on all fronts has increased dramatically. The HIP ensembles of today are spectacularly good.

Yup

[Jo498]

to be fair, the mid 1980s when Norrington recorded the Beethoven symphonies were not really the early days of "HIP".
Early for extending the approach to Beethoven, Schubert etc., but early HIP in the sense of using historical instruments for baroque music was mid-1950s through late 1960s and even then someone like Brüggen played historic flute and recorder well enough that one can listen to it today without shuddering, it was mostly the natural brass instruments that needed some more experience.

[brewski]

to be fair, the mid 1980s when Norrington recorded the Beethoven symphonies were not really the early days of "HIP".
Early for extending the approach to Beethoven, Schubert etc., but early HIP in the sense of using historical instruments for baroque music was mid-1950s through late 1960s and even then someone like Brüggen played historic flute and recorder well enough that one can listen to it today without shuddering, it was mostly the natural brass instruments that needed some more experience.

Thank you for this, much appreciated.

[DavidW]

to be fair, the mid 1980s when Norrington recorded the Beethoven symphonies were not really the early days of "HIP".
Early for extending the approach to Beethoven, Schubert etc., but early HIP in the sense of using historical instruments for baroque music was mid-1950s through late 1960s and even then someone like Brüggen played historic flute and recorder well enough that one can listen to it today without shuddering, it was mostly the natural brass instruments that needed some more experience.

I think it wasn't early days for Dutch PI, but I think the 80s were early days for British PI. Since they adopted very different styles (at least initially), I would think that they developed independently, and in that sense, Norrington, Pinnock, Gardiner, Hogwood, etc., were effectively navigating period-style performances for the first time.

[Jo498]

The Brits also started in the late 50s and early 60s (e.g. Thurston Dart), even though they mostly used modern instruments.
But they considered performance practice, used harpsichords, spontaneous embellishments (like in the 1966 Messiah with C. Davis) that sound sometimes exaggerated today etc. Hogwood was playing harpsichord and organ for Marriner's recordings in the 60s, IIRC. Gardiner and Norrington made choral recordings in the 1970s in a style that might be described as "proto-HIP". And Munrow with earlier music.

Hogwood had begun his Mozart recordings already in the late 1970s.

I am not saying that the approach wasn't still fairly new, especially wrt Beethoven in the mid-1980s but the pioneering era was 20 years before that time.
Even if more of the early work was done in the Netherlands (Leonhardt, Brüggen), Basel (Wenziger and others), Vienna (Harnoncourt) and Cologne (although Collegium Aureum seems more semi-HIP from today, they were probably the first going full into the classical era with lots of Mozart, some Haydn, Beethoven and at least chamber music by Schubert), even Boston (Joel Cohen), Britain was not isolated from the rest of the world.

[JBS]

A quick check of the Decca Complete Haebler set shows that she commissioned a fortepiano built in. 1953 based on Mozart-era models for Mozart's bicentennial in 1956, but did not use it in any Philips recordings until 1969. So it was apparently 15 years before she felt ready to record with it. (Or perhaps it wasn't until then that Philips thought it would be commercially viable.) The recordings she used it for were those of J C Bach and Haydn. Ironically, although motivated by the Mozart bicentennial, she doesn't seem to have used it in any Mozart recording.

[Herman]

Britain was not isolated from the rest of the world.

It may be that the English speaking world (UK and USA for sifferent reasons) was more resistant than continental Europe.

[Irons]

The Brits also started in the late 50s and early 60s (e.g. Thurston Dart), even though they mostly used modern instruments.
But they considered performance practice, used harpsichords, spontaneous embellishments (like in the 1966 Messiah with C. Davis) that sound sometimes exaggerated today etc. Hogwood was playing harpsichord and organ for Marriner's recordings in the 60s, IIRC. Gardiner and Norrington made choral recordings in the 1970s in a style that might be described as "proto-HIP". And Munrow with earlier music.

Hogwood had begun his Mozart recordings already in the late 1970s.

I am not saying that the approach wasn't still fairly new, especially wrt Beethoven in the mid-1980s but the pioneering era was 20 years before that time.
Even if more of the early work was done in the Netherlands (Leonhardt, Brüggen), Basel (Wenziger and others), Vienna (Harnoncourt) and Cologne (although Collegium Aureum seems more semi-HIP from today, they were probably the first going full into the classical era with lots of Mozart, some Haydn, Beethoven and at least chamber music by Schubert), even Boston (Joel Cohen), Britain was not isolated from the rest of the world.

Very much agree. Thurston Dart was at the vanguard long before HIP recognised as a movement. I find his Brandenburg set 'informed' as Pinnock et al.

A Thurston Dart recording from 1957 - 

[Kalevala]

Very much agree. Thurston Dart was at the vanguard long before HIP recognised as a movement. I find his Brandenburg set 'informed' as Pinnock et al.

A Thurston Dart recording from 1957 - 

I remember liking the Brandenburg Concertos with Neville Marriner (T.D. reconstruction--it that's the correct word) and liking them and buying them.

K

[Irons]

I remember liking the Brandenburg Concertos with Neville Marriner (T.D. reconstruction--it that's the correct word) and liking them and buying them.

K

If you get the chance K give Dart a listen. Only caveat the trumpet pitch did something weird to my right ear (thankfully only temporary).

[DaveF]

I think it was one of the Matthews brothers who said he was afraid to listen to Mahler 6 in case it gave him a heart attack, and I feel much the same about Norrington's Beethoven 7 with the LCP.

I remember a Prom, probably from the early '90s, where he conducted the Mozart Requiem, and the rumour was that he had terminal cancer and this was to be his last concert.  Well, he showed 'em.

And an amusing (or bemusing) snippet this morning: I live-streamed Mass from St Mary, Bourne Street (London), my go-to provider when I'm not able to get to church in person, and listed one after the other in the "recently departed" slot during the Intercessions (usually reserved for members of the congregation) were Sir Roger Norrington and Ozzy Osbourne.  I do wonder what either of them would have made of being named in each other's company (although I'm sure that for David Hurwitz Norrington was also The Prince of Darkness).

[Mookalafalas]

I got a digital copy of Norrington's "big box" after reading Dave Hurwitz rip on him. I have only played a few disks so far, but found everything unusually clear, with great instrument separation,lively playing, agreeable tempos, and sensible interpretations. Perhaps he can be considered "middle of the road" early HIP. Not a bad place to be. I place myself in the fan column.