Professionality

[Mandryka]

Sometimes my brain jumps the tracks under the malign influence of my Hofstadter fixation.

You're a rhizome

[Henk]

their work is hard (but they want that for reasons alien to me

I have my own working days, mourning days, anniversary days, like Nietzsche argues.

[Karl Henning]

"Professional" is not in fact merely a matter of "Is that what they're paid for?" An artist who has mastered their craft so that their work is excellent is a "professional" whether that work puts bread on the table or not. Van Gogh only sold one or two paintings. Who is going to argue with a straight face that his work was unprofessional?

[Henk]

"Professional" is not in fact merely a matter of "Is that what they're paid for?" An artist who has mastered their craft so that their work is excellent is a "professional" whether that work puts bread on the table or not. Van Gogh only sold one or two paintings. Who is going to argue with a straight face that his work was unprofessional?

He was a pro, but we shun from calling him like that, he was beyond, beyond the morals (of professionalism) of society. A genius maybe.

Btw he didn't want to sell his artworks, because he got too little money for it in his opinion.

[DavidW]

A professional works for money. Doesn't have to enjoy it, often quite the opposite, really. It's the job, after all. An amateur, on the other hand (clue's in the name), does it for love, not for a paycheque. Think Inspector Lestrade versus Sherlock Holmes. Somewhere along the way, the world took a wrong turn when money stopped being a means and started pretending to be the point.

There are plenty of people who get into jobs just for the pay, but many choose something they are passionate about. However, I think the difference lies in the fact that with a hobby, you get to choose when you do it and what you do. With a job, no matter how you feel that day, you have to go in and get the work done. And there are always things you don't want to do, which is a part of the job. I love to teach, but I also need to grade, attend meetings, complete committee work, and do seemingly endless paperwork.

It is not like I have lost my enthusiasm for my job, but it has become a quiet contentment with both good and bad days.

[AnotherSpin]

Another way of looking at it: a professional approaches a task by sticking to the rules, by doing things the way they ought to be done. An amateur, by contrast, tends to ignore the rules and simply thinks, why not?

And just to add, I happen to know a few members of the philharmonic orchestra in Odesa. I can't say I've ever had the impression that they're particularly interested in music, or even like it, really. For them, it's just a job. Once the rehearsal is over, it wouldn't cross their mind to listen to any music at all.

[Henk]

There are plenty of people who get into jobs just for the pay, but many choose something they are passionate about. However, I think the difference lies in the fact that with a hobby, you get to choose when you do it and what you do. With a job, no matter how you feel that day, you have to go in and get the work done. And there are always things you don't want to do, which is a part of the job. I love to teach, but I also need to grade, attend meetings, complete committee work, and do seemingly endless paperwork.

It is not like I have lost my enthusiasm for my job, but it has become a quiet contentment with both good and bad days.

The things you don't like to do, how much of it is avoidable, useful or useless?

[DavidW]

Another way of looking at it: a professional approaches a task by sticking to the rules, by doing things the way they ought to be done. An amateur, by contrast, tends to ignore the rules and simply thinks, why not?

No, I think that is completely wrong. Case in point: I fold Origami. The most talented artists who have become professionals have eclipsed all other folders in their wild imagination, creativity, and ingenious insight. They are the ones who lead while others follow and copy.

As a teacher, I have extreme latitude in how I teach the class. I have used it to re-examine and change just about every aspect of my teaching and grading over the years, looking for ways to improve student learning and engagement.

When I did research, my biggest accomplishment was seeing something that nobody else saw in a calculation because the math obscured it. I'm not trying to brag, but it took heavy convincing for people to even see what I found.

Not every job is about "following the rules". And also, being an amateur doesn't necessarily make someone a creative genius.

[DavidW]

The things you don't like to do, how much of it is avoidable, useful or useless?

None of it is avoidable, it is all useful and necessary. Not liking something doesn't mean it is not important or needed.

[AnotherSpin]

No, I think that is completely wrong. Case in point: I fold Origami. The most talented artists who have become professionals have eclipsed all other folders in their wild imagination, creativity, and ingenious insight. They are the ones who lead while others follow and copy.

As a teacher, I have extreme latitude in how I teach the class. I have used it to re-examine and change just about every aspect of my teaching and grading over the years, looking for ways to improve student learning and engagement.

When I did research, my biggest accomplishment was seeing something that nobody else saw in a calculation because the math obscured it. I'm not trying to brag, but it took heavy convincing for people to even see what I found.

Not every job is about "following the rules". And also, being an amateur doesn't necessarily make someone a creative genius.

As a professional, you are nevertheless required to follow a certain set of rules, within which you may display elements of creativity. For amateurs, there are usually no rules, or at least fewer of them.

[Henk]

None of it is avoidable, it is all useful and necessary. Not liking something doesn't mean it is not important or needed.

Then at least it's somewhat fulfilling. Your job doesn't sound too bad.

I can't do such a job, my ideas get rejected and I end up lowest in the picking order. Even volunteers' work demands being a professional and too much discipline. It's a production regime in the ghost of capitalism.

I did a disciplined volunteers' job doing the dishes with a dishing machine ('machine culture'). I liked it, but the others wanted to work as hard as possible to be early at home. I ended lowest in the picking order.

[Henk]

No, I think that is completely wrong. Case in point: I fold Origami. The most talented artists who have become professionals have eclipsed all other folders in their wild imagination, creativity, and ingenious insight. They are the ones who lead while others follow and copy.

As a teacher, I have extreme latitude in how I teach the class. I have used it to re-examine and change just about every aspect of my teaching and grading over the years, looking for ways to improve student learning and engagement.

When I did research, my biggest accomplishment was seeing something that nobody else saw in a calculation because the math obscured it. I'm not trying to brag, but it took heavy convincing for people to even see what I found.

Not every job is about "following the rules". And also, being an amateur doesn't necessarily make someone a creative genius.

I think not completely wrong. How many people don't like to be educated (because of rules, they end up being enslaved) or others who just 'work', be creative, because they need to buy stuff, who seek status, who want to become ultrarich by keeping the system rigged.

[AnotherSpin]

Then at least it's somewhat fulfilling. Your job doesn't sound too bad.

I can't do such a job, my ideas get rejected and I end up lowest in the picking order. Even volunteers' work demands being a professional and too much discipline. It's a production regime in the ghost of capitalism.

I did a disciplined volunteers' job doing the dishes with a dishing machine ('machine culture'). I liked it, but the others wanted to work as hard as possible to be early at home. I ended lowest in the picking order.

Right. Discipline = obedience to rules.

[Henk]

Right. Discipline = obedience to rules.

And obedience to other people's morals or the morals of the state and capitalism.

It's a huge problem. Our world is extremely threatened by climate change and planetary plunder and pollution. If the state doesn't do it's job properly, that is doing a 'good job' instead of a malicious one, society needs to organize by itself.

We need 'states of transition'. https://www.amazon.nl/dp/1009590138/?colid=3E23BJ1N83OUO&coliid=I232ZFD7ZAIT2S&ref_=wl_qv_pab

[AnotherSpin]

And obedience to other people's morals or the morals of the state and capitalism.

It's a huge problem. Our world is extremely threatened by climate change and planetary plunder and pollution. If the state doesn't do it's job properly, that is doing a 'good job' instead of a malicious one, society needs to organize by itself.

We need 'states of transition'. https://www.amazon.nl/dp/1009590138/?colid=3E23BJ1N83OUO&coliid=I232ZFD7ZAIT2S&ref_=wl_qv_pab

In Russian language, the word rabota (work) shares the same root as the word rabstvo (slavery).

In Czech language, the word robota (work) is directly connected to the word robot, coined by Karel Čapek, who dreamed that machines would take over human labor, allowing people to listen to music, read novels, and enjoy walks in the fresh air.

[Henk]

In Russian language, the word rabota (work) shares the same root as the word rabstvo (slavery).

In Czech language, the word robota (work) is directly connected to the word robot, coined by Karel Čapek, who dreamed that machines would take over human labor, allowing people to listen to music, read novels, and enjoy walks in the fresh air.

Deleuze&Guattari write of the machinic uselessness of cars. They argue for bicycles, not as a return to nature, since they argue (as well) for machinic innovation.

Work remains important, but work needs to make sense and be of planetary value.

[AnotherSpin]

Deleuze&Guattari write of the machinic uselessness of cars. They argue for bicycles, not as a return to nature, since they argue (as well) for machinic innovation.

Work remains important, but work needs to make sense and be of planetary value.

I hope they both find their happiness pedaling a bicycle.

As for me, I'm happy to drive from the village to the city center by car. First of all, I'm lazy; second, my car has a decent stereo and I usually manage to listen to one or two albums on the way.

[Henk]

I hope they both find their happiness pedaling a bicycle.

As for me, I'm happy to drive from the village to the city center by car. First of all, I'm lazy; second, my car has a decent stereo and I usually manage to listen to one or two albums on the way.

I don't like cars, never purchased one. Car drivers seem a different human species. Beautiful cars, oldtimers or sportcars is a different matter to me.

[AnotherSpin]

Regarding the importance of work, I remain rather unconvinced. One gets the impression that before the dawn of the 19th century, the very notion hadn't even dared to cross anyone's mind. Naturally, there were the odd few eccentrics who took pleasure in labor, but that was seen as a kind of perversion. After all, who could possibly resist the far superior pastime of idling about, flitting from flower to flower like the most refined of butterflies? 

[Henk]

In Russian language, the word rabota (work) shares the same root as the word rabstvo (slavery).

In Czech language, the word robota (work) is directly connected to the word robot, coined by Karel Čapek, who dreamed that machines would take over human labor, allowing people to listen to music, read novels, and enjoy walks in the fresh air.

There's a certain current of communism in philosophy these days. Interesting. I don't delve in those books too much (it's not a duty), I read 'Cybernetic Circulation Complex. Big Tech and Planetary Crisis' recently. Good book. They call for 'biocommunism' and new digital tech (machinic innovation).

Also Kohei Saito's book 'Slow Down. How degrowth communism can save the Earth'.