Topic: Paul McCartney vs. Elvis Costello

[dtwilbanks]

Who is the better pop-musician-turned-composer? Who is brave enough to actually listen to their "serious" recordings in order to find out?

[Mark]

From what little (very little) I've heard of either man's 'serious' output, the laurels go to Costello.

[Montpellier]

McCartney always has been a composer who had a good sense of music, enough to use the melodic minor scale correctly in "Yesterday", and without knowledge of music theory.   But as a classical composer?   I don't think he's got what it takes.   With his money he could afford the best guidance available but he chooses not to seek it out, or has been told he won't make it and is keeping it quiet.   A super-arrogant person.

I know nothing classical of Elvis Costello, recalling that he started out on a contract with Stiff Records many years ago, did a few gigs with same crowd, Ian Drury & the Blockheads, the Damned, etc, and seems to have resurfaced.   I'll look him up but any recorded works to recommend? 

[dtwilbanks]

McCartney always has been a composer who had a good sense of music, enough to use the melodic minor scale correctly in "Yesterday", and without knowledge of music theory.   But as a classical composer?   I don't think he's got what it takes.   With his money he could afford the best guidance available but he chooses not to seek it out, or has been told he won't make it and is keeping it quiet.   A super-arrogant person.

I know nothing classical of Elvis Costello, recalling that he started out on a contract with Stiff Records many years ago, did a few gigs with same crowd, Ian Drury & the Blockheads, the Damned, etc, and seems to have resurfaced.   I'll look him up but any recorded works to recommend? 

I don't recommend anything, but here's a link.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Elvis%20Costello&rh=n%3A85%2Ck%3AElvis%20Costello&page=1

[JoshLilly]

I've always thought it would be really neat if McCartney were to come up with melodies for an opera or musical, then give them to another composer skilled in orchestration and other things to build a complete work based around them. He sure can come up with some fantastic tunes.

[dtwilbanks]

I've always thought it would be really neat if McCartney were to come up with melodies for an opera or musical, then give them to another composer skilled in orchestration and other things to build a complete work based around them. He sure can come up with some fantastic tunes.

That's a fact.

[Lethevich]

Damnit, there was another pop musician like this that I was going to mention, but he is so unimportant to me that I forgot his name. His piano music sounded like the most horribly reheated Chopin/Schumann.

[dtwilbanks]

Damnit, there was another pop musician like this that I was going to mention, but he is so unimportant to me that I forgot his name. His piano music sounded like the most horribly reheated Chopin/Schumann.

Billy Joel? Joe Jackson?

[johnQpublic]

The Delusions part is where he believed this was good classical. 

[Lethevich]

Billy Joel? Joe Jackson?

It was Billy Joel (I recognise the CD cover linked by johnQ too) - thank you both That disc was a highly unenjoyable listen - fortunately I didn't buy it.

[Montpellier]

I don't recommend anything, but here's a link.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Elvis%20Costello&rh=n%3A85%2Ck%3AElvis%20Costello&page=1

Thanks for that link.

Hmm, well, the blurbs say it was derived from the French Impressionists then goes on to say who he cribbed from.   I listened to the samples of the first 12 tracks and honestly I can see no reason to go back.  Perhaps it would be brilliant as a ballet.  Shame that DG didn't have the presence of mind to publish a DVD of the ballet.  No doubt they will once the few Costello fans interested in this have bought the CD.   

[johnQpublic]

Was that "Il Sogno", Anancho?

If it was, I too just listened to three excerpts. No ability to stay on topic (ie theme or motive) for more than 10 seconds. I haven't heard some many diverse ideas laid end to end in a one-minute clip before. 

[DavidW]

McCartney just came out with a new album awhile back signed with Starbucks, thought it was pop music.  Has he done classical?

[George]

Roger Waters wrote an opera. 

[DavidW]

Roger Waters wrote an opera. 

Dude that would make such a great punchline.  Just wait for it, have a thread where we are all discussing the merits of Wagner and then out of the blue just that post as is.  It would be beautiful.

[Solitary Wanderer]

I don't think I've ever owned anything by McCartney or Costello...?

No wait!  I had an EP from Costello in '81 which I didn't like at all. I think I bought it 'cause it was on special and I'd previously enjoyed his song 'I Don't Want to Go to Chelsea'.

I had a cd comp of McCartney's solo work 'cause I liked the song [from my youth] 'Listen to What The Man Said'. But the rest of the disk was dire and I sold it fast  

As to these pop singers pretensions to 'serious' music, well its just a joke.

I was aware of the Billy Joel one too, but haven't been brave enough to venture a listen never mind actually buying the thing.

Pop 'stars' make me smile like a kindly grandparent observing small children trying to dance in platform shoes

[George]

Dude that would make such a great punchline.  Just wait for it, have a thread where we are all discussing the merits of Wagner and then out of the blue just that post as is.  It would be beautiful.

But I don't read the Wagner threads. 

[DavidW]

But I don't read the Wagner threads. 

Well I originally said Elgar but then that seemed too strange so I changed it to Wagner.

[George]

Well I originally said Elgar but then that seemed too strange so I changed it to Wagner.

Yeah, I don't read the Elgar threads either, but feel free to use it. 

[Catison]

Good pop music is a perfectly acceptable art form.  For some reason the really good musicians feel they have to justify their talent by turning to classical music.  I've never understood it.  Know your boundaries!