Works you hate by composers you love

[Mark]

Most parts of Sibelius' 2nd symphony sound boring to me.

That work may be many things, Rappy, but surely, 'boring' isn't one of these.

[notserp89m]

Beehtovens piano sonatas??

I am very sorry you don't enjoy those, some of my favorite work by any composer.


Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker
Such dry emotionless music. I heard someone call the music "cute," good music should never be "cute."

[rappy]

The Nutcracker contains so extremly lovely melodies many other composers could never think of.

And, yeah, some Beethoven piano sonatas are quite boring in my opinion - especially those who consist mostly of harmonic progressions played in broken chords.

[brpaulandrew]

Mahler is one of my favorite composers since first hearing an excerpt of the finale ( app. 5 minutes) of the Symphony No. 8 in high school. Shortly afterward, I heard Leinsdorf and the NY Philharmonic perform the 5th and was hooked. The symphonies and song cycles are all favorites.

But can someone help me to understand that 8th Symphony. It makes no sense musically. I have the DG Bernstein recording but can't seem to make it past the first few minutes. Maybe others have the same problem.

Br. Paul Andrew

[quintett op.57]

I wouldn't mind never hearing a Haydn symphony again.

you can't miss what you don't know.

Like me. there's something I don't know in most of the works I don't enjoy, I believe.
I assume It's the same for everyone

[Cato]

Mahler is one of my favorite composers since first hearing an excerpt of the finale ( app. 5 minutes) of the Symphony No. 8 in high school. Shortly afterward, I heard Leinsdorf and the NY Philharmonic perform the 5th and was hooked. The symphonies and song cycles are all favorites.

But can someone help me to understand that 8th Symphony. It makes no sense musically. I have the DG Bernstein recording but can't seem to make it past the first few minutes. Maybe others have the same problem.

Br. Paul Andrew

As the ultimate of Mahler's song symphonies, the Eighth seems like a curious hybrid, with the Veni, Creator, Spiritus collaged with Goethe's final Faust scene.

Perhaps you are put off by the noisy, rambunctious, opening, where there seem to be mistakes in the score?   

Here is a hint: follow the voices of the choir and ignore the orchestra for the opening minutes.  Concentrate on following the text.

I am betting that eventually the orchestra will be accepted by your ear, and you will not even notice it!  Listen then a second time, and (I hope) this little trick of perception will have helped you to follow the musical logic, however unconsciously.

Of course, it could be that Bernstein has messed things up!  I doubt it, (I don't know this recording), but maybe things are not clear enough in his version.

[BachQ]

But can someone help me to understand that 8th Symphony. It makes no sense musically. I have the DG Bernstein recording but can't seem to make it past the first few minutes. Maybe others have the same problem.

I've attempted the 8th many times, and I still actively hate it ........

[karlhenning]

D Minor must hate E-flat Major . . . it is tonally ordained! 

[BachQ]

D Minor must hate E-flat Major . . . it is tonally ordained! 

I'm a strong believer in Tonal Determinism ......... (in fact, I'm a founding member of the North American sect) .......

[Catison]

I've attempted the 8th many times, and I still actively hate it ........

This one made me a believer:

[Valentino]

Mozart: Ein musikalischer Spass. No fun.
LvB: Wellington's victory (or Battle symphony, whatever). No music.

An an opposite. A work I love by a composer I "hate":
Tshaikovsky: Capriccio Italien.

Fun thread, Mark.

[Norbeone]

Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto no.1. Especially the 1st movement. The main theme is lovely, but what a mindlessly wandering piano part! 

Some movements of Messiaen's Vingt Regards, though I can't remember which ones.


I tried my hardest to think of a Bach work or movement I wasn't fond of, but such a work simply doesn't exist!   

[lukeottevanger]

Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker
Such dry emotionless music. I heard someone call the music "cute," good music should never be "cute."

oooh - emotionless? The Pas de deux, which is not part of the suite so isn't as well-known as the 'cutesy' bits, is quite simply unique, rising to a climax of a kind of desperate but chaste passion that I can only equate with certain passages of Hansel und Gretel. I place this simple but potent bit of music high above many more celebratedly 'passionate' heart-on-sleeve pieces, and it seems to me to be absolutely choked with emotion. It is the only point in the score where this deep feeling overflows, and that makes it all the more potent - similar things happen with Ravel, too.

[brpaulandrew]

Perhaps you are put off by the noisy, rambunctious, opening, where there seem to be mistakes in the score?   
Here is a hint: follow the voices of the choir and ignore the orchestra for the opening minutes.  Concentrate on following the text.

Thanks Cato. It does start off with a loud bang. I probably need to sit down with the lyrics first and then follow the chorus. Maybe I'm looking for a followup to the 2nd symphony which I love.

Br. Paul Andrew 

[bhodges]

I love both 2 and 8, but by the time he wrote the latter, Mahler was getting into some interesting new territory.  You could almost hear the 8th as an oratorio or even an opera. 

I haven't heard the Bernstein recording, nor the more recent Wit that Catison mentions above, but if you're inclined, you might check out the Chailly version, which is a) considerably slower than many, and b) treats the score with more intimacy.  He has an excellent group of soloists, too, along with the distinctive organ inside the Concertgebouw that is very well captured on the recording.



--Bruce

[BachQ]

Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto no.1. Especially the 1st movement. The main theme is lovely, but what a mindlessly wandering piano part! 

(don't get me started ........)

There is no piece of music that I love to hate more than Tchaik 1 ........

[Bonehelm]

Chopin: Piano concerto no.1 in E minor


Abysmal orchestration, he might as well omit all the parts except for piano. Another sonata or something.

[Mark]

Chopin: Piano concerto no.1 in E minor


Abysmal orchestration, he might as well omit all the parts except for piano. Another sonata or something.

Now go and hear the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra under Giulini (on DG) with a young Zimerman at the keyboard, then come back and tell me how differently (or not) you find this work.

[BachQ]

Now go and hear the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra under Giulini (on DG) with a young Zimerman at the keyboard, then come back and tell me how differently (or not) you find this work.

Ah, yes ...... the YOUNG Zimerman! 

[BachQ]

Chopin: Piano concerto no.1 in E minor
Abysmal orchestration, he might as well omit all the parts except for piano. Another sonata or something.

Now go and hear the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra under Giulini (on DG) with a young Zimerman at the keyboard, then come back and tell me how differently (or not) you find this work.

Mark, I agree with Bonehelm that Chopin's original orchestration is problematic.  I seriously wonder how significantly his orchestration is "touched-up" by others when it's performed or recorded in modern times .........