The American Justice System is a Joke!

[sound67]

"The jurors in the Phil Spector murder trial have told Judge Larry Paul Fidler they've reached an impasse after seven days of deliberations. The judge held a hearing on Tuesday after learning the jury members were struggling to reach a decision. The foreman told Fidler that the panel is at a seven-to-five impasse, but did not indicate which way the jury was leaning, leaving the judge to ask if there was anything he could do to help before asking lawyers to step in. Fidler denied the defense team's plea for a mistrial, stating he still hoped the jury members could come to a unanimous decision"

Remember the O.J. trial? "If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit"

What a joke! An embarrassment to the civilized world.

[маразм1]

he probably annoyed the hell out of the jury with his "wall of sound".  that's why...

[Cato]

To quote the waiter in Ferris Bueller's Day Off:

" I weep for the future! "     

I was a foreman once years ago on a car theft case, where the defendant claimed he "thought the car belonged to his uncle."

Three women bought the argument and hung us...

while the defendant was panicking and pleading guilty to the lesser charge of receiving stolen property.

To call them morons would be an insult to morons!

[Que]

I'm not hot on the widespread system of trial by juries.
Prefer a system with a trial by one judge or a panel of three judges - as is the case here (Netherlands)

Q

[Cato]

I'm not hot on the widespread system of trial by juries.
Prefer a system with a trial by one judge or a panel of three judges - as is the case here (Netherlands)

Q

If I were ever on trial (I would be innocent of course!   0:)  ) that would be my option.

[Que]

If I were ever on trial (I would be innocent of course!   0:)  ) that would be my option.

Me too. Who wants to be judged by some people randomly picked from the street? (OK the most unsuitable ones will be filtered out ). Just think of some people in your street! The shivers go through my spine just thinking about it.

I'm in the legal profession and know several judges, and I honestly would safely trust my fate in their hands if need be.

Q

[JoshLilly]

In the late 18th century when the US system of government was being set up by a bunch of genocidal sexist racist rich white males, they put in a bunch of "safeguards" to make sure that Property was protected. Keep in mind that a criminal being tried by a "jury of his peers" once meant nothing but property-owning white males at the beginning, stacking the deck with your own type if you happened to be one of them. If you just happened to not be counted among them, well, from the get-go your jury would be prejudiced against you. If you think the US justice system is a joke now, in the early days it was worse (or at least, much more brazen and openly corrupt in that regard).

[bwv 1080]

In the late 18th century when the US system of government was being set up by a bunch of genocidal sexist racist rich white males,

But who better to lead us?


The US legal system is of course taken in whole from English Common Law.

[Don]

What a joke! An embarrassment to the civilized world.

Don't be so histrionic.  Our justice system is fine with me.

[bwv 1080]

So who else has a better legal system than the US?  Europe and Canada with its prohibitons against free speech and excessive libel laws?  China?  Saudi Arabia?

[Novi]

Me too. Who wants to be judged by some people randomly picked from the street? (OK the most unsuitable ones will be filtered out ). Just think of some people in your street! The shivers go through my spine just thinking about it.

I'm in the legal profession and know several judges, and I honestly would safely trust my fate in their hands if need be.

Q

Although a large proportion of the more intelligent ones would've somehow wriggled out of jury duty ...

[Que]

So who else has a better legal system than the US?  Europe and Canada with its prohibitons against free speech and excessive libel laws?  China?  Saudi Arabia?

Sorry, but excessive libel laws is very much a UK-only thingie (I guess the old ruling "upper class" had very long toes... )

Q

[MishaK]

Europe and Canada with its prohibitons against free speech and excessive libel laws? 

What are you talking about? Libel and slander are actionable in the US as well and commercial speech does not enjoy the same constitutional protections as political speech either.

[bwv 1080]

What are you talking about? Libel and slander are actionable in the US as well and commercial speech does not enjoy the same constitutional protections as political speech either.

The UK in particular has much broader libel laws than the US, infringing on areas, such as criticism of public figures, that would be protected speech in the US

[MishaK]

The UK in particular has much broader libel laws than the US, infringing on areas, such as criticism of public figures, that would be protected speech in the US

Can you give me some links? I am curious what the extent really is and what makes a person a "public figure" under UK law.

Yes, some European countries have some stricter limitations on speech (e.g. the prohibition on Holocaust denial in Germany), but the real effects of that on individual liberty are absolutely minimal. Given that most of Western Europe these days enjoys a healthier and more open political discourse than the US (where you're-either-with-us-or-you're-against-us dominates), the comparison of libel laws to me doesn't really seem particularly helpful in proving some supposed advantages of the US.

[sound67]

I'll give you anothing thing to think about:

"judged by his peers"

Oh, yeah! Judged by bus drivers, taxi drivers, pimps, waitresses and so on.

Every intelligent male/female/transvestite is able to pull out of jury duty. Whenever has anyone in the American legal system be judged by his or her peers? I.e. unless he or she happens to be a bus driver, taxi driver, pimp, waitress etc.

I vividly remember the O.J. trial (I just couldn't stop watching, not only because it was surreal, but it unmasked the American legal system as a farce), one "substitute juror" on Larry King was a senile old bus driver.

[Novi]

I'll give you anothing thing to think about:

"judged by his peers"

Oh, yeah! Judged by bus drivers, taxi drivers, pimps, waitresses and so on.

Every intelligent male/female/transvestite is able to pull out of jury duty. Whenever has anyone in the American legal system be judged by his or her peers? I.e. unless he or she happens to be a bus driver, taxi driver, pimp, waitress etc.

I vividly remember the O.J. trial (I just couldn't stop watching, not only because it was surreal, but it unmasked the American legal system as a farce), one "substitute juror" on Larry King was a senile old bus driver.

Hey, there are intelligent bus drivers, taxi drivers, pimps, waitresses etc .

[MishaK]

Hey, there are intelligent bus drivers, taxi drivers, pimps, waitresses etc .

That's actually a very large and unresolved issue in the American legal system. What "peers" are supposed to be is not defined. There is an ongoing debate in the American legal world whether juries should be a cross-section of American society, a cross section of the local society where the crime was committed, or representative of the defendant's background. There is no simple cut and dry argument that one or the other of these options would guarantee greater justice than the alternatives.

[DavidW]

Me too. Who wants to be judged by some people randomly picked from the street? (OK the most unsuitable ones will be filtered out ).

I do.  What do you think that you're better than everyone else?   Do you think that others can't pay attention and make an intelligent decision?  Judges can be bought, they can have agendas, they can have axes to grind.  A jury quickly scooped up and kept in isolation on the other hand will not be corrupted, and those with axes to grind can be screened out.  It's about balance.  We don't trust completely in our peers, nor do we put all the power completely in the court.  Cases can be appealed, juries thrown out.  It's actually pretty robust.

[sound67]

I do.  What do you think that you're better than everyone else?  

No. But in most other countries people are tried and sentenced by professionals, not laymen from the street.

Or by people who made, e.g., My Mother the Car.