Elgar's Hillside

[relm1]

That's too bad. We had a superb Gerontius here in Boston, some years ago.

Yes for me, it was with MTT/SFO and might have been career ending.  The poor soloist refused to return to bow and MTT had to explain the situation. 

[Roasted Swan]

Yesterday for no particular reason I listened to this famous Gerontius;



Although famous its never been a favourite version of mine.  Heresy that it is I'm not a huge Barbirolli fan and the Halle could be pretty ragged.  BUT, to be fair and coming back to this version "fresh" it really is very good indeed.  Barbirolli's pacing of the work is excellent, the Halle play wonderfully (pretty well recorded for the date and venue too I thought) and the massed choirs sing with fervour, attack and very good ensemble.  Kim Borg I would happily swap out - he adds almost nothing to the performance and just sounds woolly and unconvincing.  Lewis sings well in a slightly "old-school" way (well the recording is nearly 60 years old!).  But of course Baker (rightly) takes the laurels.  Such an immediately identifiable sound but her phrasing and connection with the text is just matchless.

One other observation - I know Gerontius leaves a lot of folk quesasy because of the text/narrative but leaving that aside Elgar's musical handling, the orchestration, the formal control, the use of inter-related motifs is genuinely genius and way beyond any other equivalent British score of the time.  No surprise he wrote the "this is the best of me" comment when he completed it

[71 dB]

Yesterday for no particular reason I listened to this famous Gerontius;



Although famous its never been a favourite version of mine. Heresy that it is I'm not a huge Barbirolli fan and the Halle could be pretty ragged.

I'm a Barbirolli heretic too. I think he is a decent/good Elgar conductor, but I prefer Sir Adrian Boult of that generation who in my opinion really understood Elgar's music.

One other observation - I know Gerontius leaves a lot of folk quesasy because of the text/narrative

The text of Gerontius has never been an issue for me. My approach to music is dominantly musical and sonic while semantic aspects matters very little to me. If they did, I would really cringe with all religious classical music as an atheist, but fortunately I don't. I take the text as a product of its time which can be silly to modern people.

...but leaving that aside Elgar's musical handling, the orchestration, the formal control, the use of inter-related motifs is genuinely genius and way beyond any other equivalent British score of the time.  No surprise he wrote the "this is the best of me" comment when he completed it

As an Elgarian I will always agree when Elgar's handling of things is called genius.  Up until the completion of Gerontius in 1900 it was the "best of him". Only Enigma Variation could rival Gerontius, but in my opinion Elgar continued getting better for a decade after Gerontius. I consider The Apostles and The Kingdom both superior to Gerontius. Many consider these works "boring", but they aren't the kind of "showpieces" Gerontius is. They are deeper and more meditative. More sophisticated if you will. I think Elgar reached his full mastery with the Violin Concerto (1910) and the Second Symphony (1911). I believe this continuous slow development is because Elgar was largely self-taught. He had to "figure things out" himself, but this also gave the opportunity out of necessity to create a personal wonderful musical language that to me at least makes Elgar so special.

[Roasted Swan]

I'm a Barbirolli heretic too. I think he is a decent/good Elgar conductor, but I prefer Sir Adrian Boult of that generation who in my opinion really understood Elgar's music.

The text of Gerontius has never been an issue for me. My approach to music is dominantly musical and sonic while semantic aspects matters very little to me. If they did, I would really cringe with all religious classical music as an atheist, but fortunately I don't. I take the text as a product of its time which can be silly to modern people.

As an Elgarian I will always agree when Elgar's handling of things is called genius.  Up until the completion of Gerontius in 1900 it was the "best of him". Only Enigma Variation could rival Gerontius, but in my opinion Elgar continued getting better for a decade after Gerontius. I consider The Apostles and The Kingdom both superior to Gerontius. Many consider these works "boring", but they aren't the kind of "showpieces" Gerontius is. They are deeper and more meditative. More sophisticated if you will. I think Elgar reached his full mastery with the Violin Concerto (1910) and the Second Symphony (1911). I believe this continuous slow development is because Elgar was largely self-taught. He had to "figure things out" himself, but this also gave the opportunity out of necessity to create a personal wonderful musical language that to me at least makes Elgar so special.

I agree with all you say.  Of course the "best of me" quote relates to where he was then on his creative journey and he did do even better!  I too would tend to prefer Boult to Barbirolli in this music but do revisit the Barbirolli Gerontius sometime - it is a tremendous version.

[Luke]

I think Elgar reached his full mastery with the Violin Concerto (1910) and the Second Symphony (1911).

This. It woz the Windflower wot won it.

[71 dB]

I agree with all you say.  Of course the "best of me" quote relates to where he was then on his creative journey and he did do even better!  I too would tend to prefer Boult to Barbirolli in this music but do revisit the Barbirolli Gerontius sometime - it is a tremendous version.

Yeah, I need to put that on my "to do" list. 

[vers la flamme]

^I can back that suggestion wholeheartedly; I love the Barbirolli Gerontius. I have another Gerontius that I also enjoy: Hickox on Chandos.

[Roasted Swan]

Fairly randomly I revisited this old CD today;



The disc also includes the Solti/LPO/Cockaigne.  A few observations;

• The P&C Marches are just tremendous pieces in every respect.  Once you get past the cultural associations/negative implications today of "Land of Hope & Glory" and listen to them as 'abstract' quick marches they are so good.  The less well-known Nos.2,3 & 5 are not just musically memorable but have an intriguing rather nervous quality.  One thing I had never noticed in years of having this disc - the LPO timpanist plays his own rather entertaining chromatic bass line in Nos.1&4
• Solti IS very good in this repertoire.  His choice of tempi in the marches are spot-on - energetic when required but with a real sweep and nobility (yes that word) as well.
• The Enigma suffers a bit from being too much of an orchestral showcase but its still an enjoyable version
• The Decca analogue recordings in the old Kingsway Hall overseen by Kenneth Wilkinson are just stunning and the LPO is on great form
• Perhaps Decca could collect together all of Solti's Elgar in one of their Blu-Ray remastered sets?
   The Symphonies, In the South and Violin Conc. still measure up well both as performances and certainly as recordings
• For years Solti's Elgar symphonies were Penguin rosette performances but now little regarded I think.

[relm1]

What is the favorite "In the South (Alassio)" recording?  Was thinking while reading RS's post above mine about Solti, I bet he made a great, great In the South...just don't think he ever did one.

[Roasted Swan]

What is the favorite "In the South (Alassio)" recording?  Was thinking while reading RS's post above mine about Solti, I bet he made a great, great In the South...just don't think he ever did one.

Enjoy......

For my money 2nd only to Silvestri's

(the fact that Solti's well-regarded "In the South" is unknown here rather makes my point about these performances falling out of the current conciousness....)

EDIT:  PDO - the gift that keeps giving........  In the light of the above conversation I went and got out my copy of Solti/Egar 2 & In the South  (the Decca Headline Classics iteration of that coupling) and so thrilled to find its bronzed.  In the South (the 1st track) does play as does the 1st movement of the Symphony but after that all manner of mistracks etc etc.  PDO really did screw up didn't they!!??

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Fairly randomly I revisited this old CD today;



The disc also includes the Solti/LPO/Cockaigne.  A few observations;

• The P&C Marches are just tremendous pieces in every respect.  Once you get past the cultural associations/negative implications today of "Land of Hope & Glory" and listen to them as 'abstract' quick marches they are so good.  The less well-known Nos.2,3 & 5 are not just musically memorable but have an intriguing rather nervous quality.  One thing I had never noticed in years of having this disc - the LPO timpanist plays his own rather entertaining chromatic bass line in Nos.1&4
• Solti IS very good in this repertoire.  His choice of tempi in the marches are spot-on - energetic when required but with a real sweep and nobility (yes that word) as well.
• The Enigma suffers a bit from being too much of an orchestral showcase but its still an enjoyable version
• The Decca analogue recordings in the old Kingsway Hall overseen by Kenneth Wilkinson are just stunning and the LPO is on great form
• Perhaps Decca could collect together all of Solti's Elgar in one of their Blu-Ray remastered sets?
   The Symphonies, In the South and Violin Conc. still measure up well both as performances and certainly as recordings
• For years Solti's Elgar symphonies were Penguin rosette performances but now little regarded I think.

I must admit that I have trouble listening to Pomp and Circumstance--associate to much with graduations!

Have enjoyed at least some of his Enigma Variations.  I should revisit those.

Do like In the South (forget whose recording/s I have of that one).

PD

[relm1]

Enjoy......

For my money 2nd only to Silvestri's

(the fact that Solti's well-regarded "In the South" is unknown here rather makes my point about these performances falling out of the current conciousness....)

EDIT:  PDO - the gift that keeps giving........  In the light of the above conversation I went and got out my copy of Solti/Egar 2 & In the South  (the Decca Headline Classics iteration of that coupling) and so thrilled to find its bronzed.  In the South (the 1st track) does play as does the 1st movement of the Symphony but after that all manner of mistracks etc etc.  PDO really did screw up didn't they!!??

That was really good - so polished and driving.  Thanks for pointing me to it. 

[71 dB]

What is the favorite "In the South (Alassio)" recording?  Was thinking while reading RS's post above mine about Solti, I bet he made a great, great In the South...just don't think he ever did one.

Sir Alexander Gibson on Chandos (CHAN 6652) is the recording to get.

[71 dB]

Elgar was a man of obscure small works even us Elgarians often don't know about. Recently I discovered Elgar's Duett for trombone and double bass in B-Flat major (1887). Only one minute long piece, but lovely! 

[kyjo]

Sir Alexander Gibson on Chandos (CHAN 6652) is the recording to get.

Oh, yes! An absolutely smashing, brilliant performance of In the South (along with Elgar's other overtures). The energy simply leaps out of the speakers!

https://youtu.be/8byqsIFNb9k

[Irons]

Sir Alexander Gibson on Chandos (CHAN 6652) is the recording to get.

One of the first CDs I purchased in the '80s. Also worth a listen is the classic Silvestri recording with the Bournemouth SO. 

[Irons]

Possibly wrong thread, but I think not. Leaving aside pre-conceived conceptions and bearing in mind that Leonard Slatkin is a chum I found the Hurwitz overview of Elgar's Violin Concerto fair, well researched and entertaining. Well, I enjoyed it.

 https://youtu.be/8U7Gfn2YkZM

[Roasted Swan]

Possibly wrong thread, but I think not. Leaving aside pre-conceived conceptions and bearing in mind that Leonard Slatkin is a chum I found the Hurwitz overview of Elgar's Violin Concerto fair, well researched and entertaining. Well, I enjoyed it.

 https://youtu.be/8U7Gfn2YkZM

I flicked through it - given some of the versions mentioned, I was surprised that Little's Chandos recording and Graffin with Handley were not mentioned since both have USP features as far as this work is concerned (not that that makes them 'great' versions of course).  For me Zukerman with Barenboim is wholly more impressive than his Slatkin remake.  I like Slatkin's Elgar and I take the point about the old Sony Essentials remastering but the performance is more striking from Zukermann with Barenboim - the remake doesn't quite have the rapier brilliance that he had before.  Another version I like a lot is Stefan Solyom, Catherine Manoukian & the Staatskapelle Weimar.

[Luke]

I'm more and more convinced that, to the extent that it does indeed 'enshrine the soul' of the violin, Elgar's Concerto is one of the very finest examples of the genre. I listen to it over and over. It burns with humanity and lyricism.

[Karl Henning]