Elgar's Hillside

Started by Mark, September 20, 2007, 02:03:01 AM

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71 dB

Amazing interesting posts drogulus & Elgarian;)

I also have felt always that Elgar suffers unjustly from "stylistic reasons."

I have loved the Violin Concerto as one of Elgar's best works from the first time I heard it and feel that if you understand what kind of man Elgar was, you'll understand and enjoy his music more. 
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karlhenning

Quote from: 71 dB on January 10, 2010, 12:41:17 AM
99% of people just don't get his music. Really frustrating for us Elgarians.

I really do not think that is even remotely the case, Poju (the 99% remark; I cannot presume to validate or refute your frustration, which may well be of your own device).

For but one example:  On the Arkivmusic site, the top level of the Composer drilldown is a list of 100 "Most Popular Composers."  Not only is Elgar on that list, but by number of recordings available at Arkivmusic, he very comfortable 'ranks' at around no. 35.

That doesn't sound like "99% of people just don't get Elgar's music," except in the trivial sense that some equal percentage of people "just don't get" the music of 60 other composers on that list.

71 dB

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 14, 2010, 10:12:47 AM

I really do not think that is even remotely the case, Poju (the 99% remark; I cannot presume to validate or refute your frustration, which may well be of your own device).

For but one example:  On the Arkivmusic site, the top level of the Composer drilldown is a list of 100 "Most Popular Composers."  Not only is Elgar on that list, but by number of recordings available at Arkivmusic, he very comfortable 'ranks' at around no. 35.

That doesn't sound like "99% of people just don't get Elgar's music," except in the trivial sense that some equal percentage of people "just don't get" the music of 60 other composers on that list.

By people I mean people, not classical music fans. Or do you really think more than 1 % (more than 60 million individuals) of the population on Earth gets Elgar's symphonies? Since that percentage is that low, I suppose less than half of people into classical music really gets Elgar's music.
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Gurn Blanston

Quote from: 71 dB on January 14, 2010, 11:07:37 AM
By people I mean people, not classical music fans. Or do you really think more than 1 % (more than 60 million individuals) of the population on Earth gets Elgar's symphonies? Since that percentage is that low, I suppose less than half of people into classical music really gets Elgar's music.

Well, by those *ahem* standards, I guess you can take comfort in the undoubted fact that a statistically insignificant number of people from that same percentage don't like or appreciate Beethoven either, who is clearly Elgar's nemesis. FWIW, I am in the 1%, despite being a bit shy to admit it in these circumstances... :-\

8)
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Scarpia

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 14, 2010, 11:15:45 AM
Well, by those *ahem* standards, I guess you can take comfort in the undoubted fact that a statistically insignificant number of people from that same percentage don't like or appreciate Beethoven either, who is clearly Elgar's nemesis. FWIW, I am in the 1%, despite being a bit shy to admit it in these circumstances... :-\

8)

That was pretty obscure locution.  Are you saying you don't like Beethoven?

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Scarpia on January 14, 2010, 11:26:20 AM
That was pretty obscure locution.  Are you saying you don't like Beethoven?

Obscurity is my strength... ;)

No, I'm not saying that. To be plainer, I'm saying that (by his logic) most of the world doesn't like Beethoven any more than they like Elgar, and for the same reason; that 99.9% that doesn't care for classical music. I only chose Beethoven because Poju is the archenemy of Beethoven and the champion of Elgar, when in fact the difference between the number of people who care for one v the other, when put in terms of the population of the entire world, is statistically insignificant.  Just sayin'...

8)
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Scarpia

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 14, 2010, 12:24:31 PM
Obscurity is my strength... ;)

No, I'm not saying that. To be plainer, I'm saying that (by his logic) most of the world doesn't like Beethoven any more than they like Elgar, and for the same reason; that 99.9% that doesn't care for classical music. I only chose Beethoven because Poju is the archenemy of Beethoven and the champion of Elgar, when in fact the difference between the number of people who care for one v the other, when put in terms of the population of the entire world, is statistically insignificant.  Just sayin'...

8)

The difference between the number of people who don't like Beethoven and don't like Elgar is insignificant.  The difference between the number of people who like Beethoven and like Elgar is significant.   >:D

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Scarpia on January 14, 2010, 12:28:10 PM
The difference between the number of people who don't like Beethoven and don't like Elgar is insignificant.  The difference between the number of people who like Beethoven and like Elgar is significant.   >:D

Except our Poju has couched it in terms of percentages of the world population. If we were starting (sensibly) with people who like classical music, then you would be 100% correct.... hey, what can I say?   :D

8)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

karlhenning

And, back to the videotape:

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 14, 2010, 10:12:47 AM
That doesn't sound like "99% of people just don't get Elgar's music," except in the trivial sense that some equal percentage of people "just don't get" the music of 60 other composers on that list.

drogulus


     
Quote from: Scarpia on January 14, 2010, 12:28:10 PM
The difference between the number of people who don't like Beethoven and don't like Elgar is insignificant.  The difference between the number of people who like Beethoven and like Elgar is significant.   >:D

      Therefore, Elgar is the greater composer. Even after 100 years people don't get him. Beethoven is OK if you like popular music.

      Pretty convincing, eh?
     
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Scarpia

Quote from: drogulus on January 14, 2010, 07:40:33 PM
     
      Therefore, Elgar is the greater composer. Even after 100 years people don't get him. Beethoven is OK if you like popular music.

      Pretty convincing, eh?
     

I might even be willing to admit to liking some Elgar, until I realize that 71 db will interpret this as proof that he is really smarter than the rest of us afterall... >:(

Elgarian

#351
Quote from: 71 dB on January 10, 2010, 12:41:17 AM
Elgar's Violin Concerto is my favorite VC! Absolutely awesome work  and totally undervalued.
My impression is that it's commonly regarded as one of the great violin concertos - not least by the fiddlers who play it. There are loads of recordings of it. I don't think it's undervalued.

Quote99 % of people just don't get his music. Really frustrating for us Elgarians.
I don't believe I do find it particularly frustrating. It seems to be part of the human condition that things are like that. 99.99% of people don't 'get' any of the things that fascinate me (and I suspect most people could say something similar).

Misinformation about Elgar is a different matter of course - and that can be frustrating when I encounter it; but on the whole, Elgar seems to be doing OK as far as I can see. There's a flourishing Elgar Society, a lovely Birthplace museum, a large number of excellent recordings available, an enticingly large array of fascinating books about him, and no shortage of performances of his music. Where's the problem?

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: Elgarian on January 15, 2010, 03:02:51 AM
Elgar seems to be doing OK as far as I can see. There's a flourishing Elgar Society, a lovely Birthplace museum, a large number of excellent recordings available, an enticingly large array of fascinating books about him, and no shortage of performances of his music. Where's the problem?

The problem is that I won't be able to make tonight's concert of the Enigma Variations plus the Cello Concerto - it's sold out (and that's in Moscow, mind you, not anywhere in the UK).

But I'll have another chance to hear the concerto in March (same hall, different soloist).
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

drogulus

#353
     
Quote from: Elgarian on January 15, 2010, 03:02:51 AM
My impression is that it's commonly regarded as one of the great violin concertos - not least by the fiddlers who play it. There are loads of recordings of it. I don't think it's undervalued.


        I agree. Both concertos are well regarded. Even the symphonies have been recorded many times, and not just by the usual suspects. Unlike with the Bax symphonies, you don't have to be British to conduct them.
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karlhenning

Quote from: Elgarian on January 15, 2010, 03:02:51 AM
My impression is that it's commonly regarded as one of the great violin concertos - not least by the fiddlers who play it. There are loads of recordings of it. I don't think it's undervalued.

Hear, hear.  It is going to be a delight to hear the Vn Cto live at Symphony Hall this weekend!

71 dB

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 14, 2010, 12:24:31 PM
I only chose Beethoven because Poju is the archenemy of Beethoven and the champion of Elgar,

Not true! I am not an archenemy of Beethoven. I consider him the greatest composer of string quartets. What I am saying is that in my opinion Beethoven wasn't that great in everything. That doesn't make me an archenemy, not even an enemy.  It makes me critical.
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71 dB

Quote from: Elgarian on January 15, 2010, 03:02:51 AMWhere's the problem?

Over there in UK the problem might be invisible but come to Finland! Elgar's status here is miserable.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
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MN Dave

Who cares what Finland thinks?   :P

karlhenning

Quote from: 71 dB on January 15, 2010, 06:43:10 AM
Not true! I am not an archenemy of Beethoven. I consider him the greatest composer of string quartets.

Beethoven was also a symphonist far superior to Elgar. (Just saying.)

71 dB

Quote from: Beethovenian on January 15, 2010, 07:29:58 AM
Who cares what Finland thinks?   :P

I care because I am a Finn. It's not only Finland. Elgar's status is low is Poland, France, Italy, China, Brazil, Island, etc.. etc...

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 15, 2010, 08:08:25 AM
Beethoven was also a symphonist far superior to Elgar. (Just saying.)

So you say but Beethoven's all 9 symphonies together means to me less than one of Elgar's symphonies.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

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