Elgar's Hillside

Started by Mark, September 20, 2007, 02:03:01 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: DavidRoss on March 15, 2010, 04:26:33 AM
FWIW, timings for Barbirolli in the recording above and for Davis/LSO live:

Barbirolli  19:19  13:47  8:18  14:16

Davis       18:23  16:19  8:26  14:30

Interesting, (EMI version),
Boult        17:33  14:18  8:06  13:14
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

71 dB

Hmm... ...recent discussion has made me interested about Solti's Elgar.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Sergeant Rock

#442
Quote from: 71 dB on March 15, 2010, 07:37:21 AM
Hmm... ...recent discussion has made me interested about Solti's Elgar.

I have a lousy record predicting what you will or won't like but I think Solti's Elgar is worth a listen. I listened to his Second twice today; enjoyed it immensely. The Decca twofer that has 1 & 2, Cockaigne and In the South can be had very cheaply from Amazon sellers. The Chung/Solti VC is also good...not as "girly" as Hahn's  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Scarpia

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 15, 2010, 04:36:31 AMThanks for the Barbirolli timings, David. I don't own his Elgar--I should rectify that (I do own the Davis box).

At a bit over 12 pounds for 5 CDs of Elgar/Barbirolli, you can't go far wrong.


http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/3679182.htm

Sergeant Rock

#444
Quote from: Scarpia on March 15, 2010, 09:01:21 AM
At a bit over 12 pounds for 5 CDs of Elgar/Barbirolli, you can't go far wrong.


http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/3679182.htm

Thanks...that looks like just what I need...or rather, want  :D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

71 dB

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 15, 2010, 08:54:05 AM
I have a lousy record predicting what you will or won't like but I think Solti's Elgar is worth a listen. I listened to his Second twice today; enjoyed it immensely. The Decca twofer that has 1 & 2, Cockaigne and In the South can be had very cheaply from Amazon sellers. The Chung/Solti VC is also good...not as "girly" as Hahn's  ;D

Sarge
Thanks, I was looking myself that set already. In my case UK Amazon might be the cheapest option (6 € postage compared to £1.79). The main problem is my INTENSE collecting of Doctor Who DVDs, something that eats up about half or more of monthly online shopping budget. The other half has gone to Bach, Tangerine Dream etc. (I am having a Bach-period). Elgar needs to wait (there's tons of Elgar on my wish list...)  :'(

Why Doctor Who? Couple of years ago I hardly knew about this British legend. They never showed it on Finish TV until recently when they showed it on pay-channels (scifi channel) that I happen to have. I fell in love with the show instantly. It's my thing! It's CRAZY in a wonderful naive but inventive/bold/funny way. Today I got Dalek War set (Frontier in Space + Planet of the Daleks).  :D

Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

knight66

Thanks guys, an interesting set of opinions. I am still dithering, which is very unlike me, I bought my house faster than this!

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

drogulus

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 14, 2010, 04:30:19 AM
:D ;D :D  ..nice Seinfeld allusion, David.

Elgar's Second is the very definition of hyper-Late Romanticism. To me it's an emotional roller-coaster, akin to Mahler especially in the versions I prefer--which prolong the "agony"  ;D  Definitely one of my favorite symphonies and yes, it a masterpiece of its kind. Not for everyone obviously.

Sarge

     I agree. Though I don't see why it isn't for everyone just because everyone isn't for it.

     I guess it raises the same issue I raised elsewhere about kinds of difficulty. There's not just the modernist difficulty to deal with there are also the late Romantics. You have to make allowances for them, too, as well as for oddballs like Bax, Brian, etc who don't slot easily into a modernist teleology.

     For less (but not non) bombast I'd give Boult/Lyrita a try. He takes a more detailed approach than Handley, my all time champ in the 2nd Symphony. If I were to sample a non-Brit approach instinct would lead me to Haitink before Solti.

     Elgar lovers owe it to themselves to get the Boult/EMI choral music box set.

     

The Music Makers, Op.69
Janet Baker, mezzo-soprano
London Philharmonic Choir
(chorus master: Frederic Jackson)
London Philharmonic Orchestra
dir. Sir Adrian Boult
Recorded: 21-23.XII.1966, No.1 Studio, Abbey Road, London

The Dream of Gerontius, Op.38
Helen Watts (mezzo-soprano) ... The Angel
Nicolai Gedda (tenor) ... Gerontius / Soul of Gerontius
Robert Lloyd (bass) ... The Priest / The Angel of the Agony
John Alldis Choir
London Philharmonic Choir
(chorus master: John Alldis)
New Philharmonia Orchestra
dir. Sir Adrian Boult
Recorded: 18.V & 18, 21, 24, 27 & 31.VII.1975, Kingsway Hall, London

The Apostles
Sheila Armstrong (soprano) ... The Blessed Virgin / The Angel
Robert Tear (tenor) ... St John
Benjamin Luxon (bass) ... St Peter
Clifford Grant (bass) ... Judas
John Carol Case (bass) ... Jesus
Choir of Downe House School
(director of music: Dorothy Dickinson)
London Philharmonic Choir
(chorus master: John Alldis)
London Philharmonic Orchestra
dir. Sir Adrian Boult
Recorded: 23, 29 & 30.X, 5 & 7.XI and 20 & 31.XII.1973 and 2.VII.1974, Kingsway Hall, London

The Apostles & The Kingdom: An illustrated introduction by Sir Adrian Boult
(Elgar's use of leitmotiv)
Script by Michael Kennedy and Sir Adrian Boult

Excerpts from The Apostles, The Kingdom and The Light of Life conducted by Sir Adrian Boult
Excerpts from The Dreams of Gerontius conducted by Sir John Barbirolli
Recorded: 24.VI.1974, Abbey Road Studios, London

The Kingdom, Op.51
Margaret Price (soprano) ... The Blessed Virgin
Yvonne Minton (contralto) ... Mary Magdalene
Alexander Young (tenor) ... St John
John Shirley-Quirk (bass) ... St Peter
London Philharmonic Choir
(chorus master: John Alldis)
London Philharmonic Orchestra
dir. Sir Adrian Boult
Recorded: 16-18 & 20-22.XII.1968, Kingsway Hall, London

Coronation Ode, Op.44
Felicity Lott (soprano), Alfreda Hodgson (contralto),
Richard Morton (tenor), Stephen Roberts (bass)
Cambridge University Musical Society Chorus
Choir of King's College, Cambridge New Philharmonia Orchestra
Band of the Royal Military School of Music, Kneller Hall
dir. Philip Ledger
Recorded: 7 & 8.II.1977, Chapel of King's College, Cambridge

     
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:123.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/123.0
      
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/115.0

kishnevi

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 15, 2010, 03:39:20 AM
Any opinions here on Tate/LSO here?  I've had the GEMIni two-fer of the symphonies for a year or more, but haven't listened to them yet (gosh, I wonder why?)
You owe yourself a listen.
That's my only recording of the Symphonies.  By happenstance, I played Symphony 1 last night, and it's been so long since I've played it, it was like hearing a brand new work all over--and impressed me.  I will be playing it a good deal more often than I have been.

knight66

I have ordered the Tate as being at the opposite poll to Solti. The deal includes No 1. I hope it will enable me to fall for that second symphomy all over again. Now of course if it sounds boring.............

I wonder what Tate is up to these days? I have not scoured the European concert schedules, but I have not seen any discs from him for quite some time.

MIke
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Lethe on March 15, 2010, 04:37:03 AM
Hmm, Davis feels a lot slower than he actually is :-X

And in the First Symphony he is actually slow--which when combined with the feeling that he's actually slower than he actually is, actually makes him dead in the water  ;D  :D

Seriously, even I (with my near fetish for slow tempos) find Davis just too slow in that performance.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: knight on March 15, 2010, 10:59:07 PM
I wonder what Tate is up to these days? I have not scoured the European concert schedules, but I have not seen any discs from him for quite some time.
MIke

Yes, Tate is another conductor who seems to have dropped off the map after an impressive recording career in the 80s and early 90s. He was a favorite of mine: his Elgar, Haydn symphonies, the Mozart PC cycle with Uchida, Arabella with Te Kanawa. Wiki says: "He was principal conductor of the Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra from 1991 to 1995. In 2005, he was appointed music director of the San Carlo Theatre of Naples. In October 2007, the Hamburg Symphony Orchestra announced the appointment of Tate as its next chief conductor, as of the spring of 2008." What was he up to between 1995 and 2005?

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 16, 2010, 04:16:49 AM
Yes, Tate is another conductor who seems to have dropped off the map after an impressive recording career in the 80s and early 90s. He was a favorite of mine: his Elgar, Haydn symphonies, the Mozart PC cycle with Uchida, Arabella with Te Kanawa. Wiki says: "He was principal conductor of the Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra from 1991 to 1995. In 2005, he was appointed music director of the San Carlo Theatre of Naples. In October 2007, the Hamburg Symphony Orchestra announced the appointment of Tate as its next chief conductor, as of the spring of 2008." What was he up to between 1995 and 2005?

Sarge

Perhaps these will help:
http://www.cami.com/worddocs/worddocs490/Biography_Tate.pdf
http://www.naxos.com/conductorinfo/jeffrey_tate/32015.htm
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: ukrneal on March 16, 2010, 04:25:17 AM
Perhaps these will help:

They do. It appears he was working primarily in Italy in the late 90s and on into the new century, and guest conducting elsewhere.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

knight66

According to that first biog, I must be living the life of a deaf hermit to have managed to avoid him for any two week period in the last 20 years. The Naxos piece felt more genuinely informative. Good to know he is still productive and clearly well thought of. I had assumed he was held back by ill health.

I listened to the clips of his Elgar set, liked what I heard. So I am looking forward to the postman calling.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: knight on March 16, 2010, 05:12:45 AM
I listened to the clips of his Elgar set, liked what I heard. So I am looking forward to the postman calling.
Mike

I hope you like the Tate performances, Mike.

Scarpia, David, the Barbirolli Elgar box I ordered Monday arrived today. I already had a CD containing the Du Pré Cello Concerto and Baker's Sea Pictures (who doesn't?) and Falstaff and Enigma, but the symphonies, overtures, marches and shorter works are new to my collection.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Scarpia

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 17, 2010, 08:09:21 AM
I hope you like the Tate performances, Mike.

Scarpia, David, the Barbirolli Elgar box I ordered Monday arrived today. I already had a CD containing the Du Pré Cello Concerto and Baker's Sea Pictures (who doesn't?) and Falstaff and Enigma, but the symphonies, overtures, marches and shorter works are new to my collection.

Sarge

The symphonies are the only ones I have from that set.  Superb.  I hope you're up for some world-class Barbirolli grunting.   :D

DavidRoss

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 17, 2010, 08:09:21 AMScarpia, David, the Barbirolli Elgar box I ordered Monday arrived today. I already had a CD containing the Du Pré Cello Concerto and Baker's Sea Pictures (who doesn't?) and Falstaff and Enigma, but the symphonies, overtures, marches and shorter works are new to my collection.
Sarge, in addition to the symphonies and the terrific Cello Cto (my second favorite after Tortelier), that box includes the terrific works for strings:  Sospiri, Elegy, Intro & Allegro, and the Serenade.  Enjoy!
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Scarpia

#458
Quote from: DavidRoss on March 17, 2010, 08:34:53 AMthat box includes the terrific works for strings:  Sospiri, Elegy, Intro & Allegro, and the Serenade.  Enjoy!

Yes, from this famous collection, which also includes the best Vaughan Williams Tallis Fantasie ever recorded (IMO).




Now the question, what is the best "Dream of Gerontius" available in good sound?  I am attracted to the idea of the Barbirolli recording, but for I fear the engineering may not be up to the challenge.


71 dB

Quote from: Scarpia on March 17, 2010, 08:41:34 AMNow the question, what is the best "Dream of Gerontius" available in good sound?  I am attracted to the idea of the Barbirolli recording, but for I fear the engineering may not be up to the challenge.

The sound quality of the Barbirolli recording is okay but only okay. Mark Elder's Gerontius on Hallé label is probably the best Gerontius with high sound quality but I haven't heard it yet.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"