Elgar's Hillside

[Scarpia]

What of Payne's completion of the Symphony No. 3?  I've had the Hickox recording in my shopping cart for a while.

[Sergeant Rock]

Tate's journey is much more to my liking and having just listened to it, I am about to replay it.
Mike

I'm pleased you're enjoying it. And I can breathe easier now... 

All is now gas & gaiters!

It would be if only they'd delivered my bottled lightning and thunder sandwich too 

Sarge

[karlhenning]

I'm pleased you're enjoying it. And I can breathe easier now... 

I do need to listen to mine, at last . . . .

[Sergeant Rock]

What of Payne's completion of the Symphony No. 3?  I've had the Hickox recording in my shopping cart for a while.

I've only heard it a couple of times, and not recently (own Davis/LSO and Daniel/Bournemouth). If the composer is important to you I think it's worth hearing, in fact, demands to be heard just like Mahler 10. I enjoy it that way: with the realization that it isn't the composer pure but better than nothing.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I do need to listen to mine, at last . . . .

How about on that long car ride from Boston? No, on second thought a car's environment is not ideal for late Romantic symphonies.

Sarge

[karlhenning]

How about on that long car ride from Boston? No, on second thought a car's environment is not ideal for late Romantic symphonies.

No, the environment wouldn't do justice to the music . . . and the music isn't what I'm looking for driving home for a bit more than an hour, late in the evening.

The Tate must wate until the other side of the Passion this weekend.  But next week, for certain!

[DavidRoss]

It would be if only they'd delivered my bottled lightning and thunder sandwich too 

Vegemite? 

[drogulus]

I see, that makes things complicated.  After poking around the EMI web site I discovered that this information is there of you know where to look (under "track listings").  The GROC is a 2007 remaster, the one you have is 1999, and the original box is 1989.  My experience is any EMI master before 1990 is far from optimum, but I don't imagine there is an enormous difference between 1999 and 2007.

     I don't trust this information. "Remaster" can be ambiguous. They may have made some adjustment to the levels, or simply made a new digital copy. The Music Makers may not have been remastered either.

     The earlier TMM CD, coupled with Boult's 1975 Gerontius, was very hot (94.5 on my hot-o-meter, which is insane for classical music). I had to take it down 5 dB in Audacity (converting to 24 bit first) so it would play properly on non-Replaygain-able devices. And when I got the Boult box with TMM it was identical. If TMM is very loud on the GROC they didn't remaster it in any important sense because they didn't fix it. If it's normal sounding they did remaster it in a useful way.

[Scarpia]

So EMI has made a hash of it, have they.  Well, I'm afraid I'm out of the market for Gerontius.  I have my choice between ham-handed remasterings and paying a king's ransom for a modern recording.  I have this feeling I'm going to hate the piece anyway.   

[knight66]

I can't help feeling you are making heavy weather of this. It is not a heart transplant. No doubt you are using a different site, but the Elder sells on Amazon UK for £14, the ransom for a very insignificant king.

Mike

[DavidRoss]

Began listening to Barbirolli's Dream late last night but barely made it through the prelude before nodding off--not the music's fault.  I thought it lovely and plan to repeat the attempt if I survive this bout of heartburn!  (Too many jalapeños, too much salsa, and then too much ice cream.) 

[Scarpia]

I can't help feeling you are making heavy weather of this. It is not a heart transplant. No doubt you are using a different site, but the Elder sells on Amazon UK for £14, the ransom for a very insignificant king.

Mike

Ok, Barbirolli, GROC version it is. 

[knight66]

Excellent, of course I can't guarantee you will enjoy the experience, but you will not be indifferent.

Mike

[drogulus]

Ok, Barbirolli, GROC version it is. 

      Baker get most of the attention and it's entirely justified. Yet I think Richard Lewis has impressed me the most, and he makes other singers sound like they are singing a part while he is inhabiting a personality. Actually both Baker and Lewis have the ability to sing beautifully while creating characters, to speak meaningfully and sing at the same time.

[Scarpia]

Actually, it is remarkable how little Elgar I have actually heard.  I think my entire Elgar listening experience up to yesterday has been the recordings of the second symphony by Barbirolli, and the pieces on Barbirolli's "English String Music" collection (the Introduction and Allegro, and Sospiri and Elegie were added to the CD release).   The second symphony recording impressed mightily, when I heard is quite a few years ago. 

Yesterday I listened to Barbirolli's recording of the 1st symphony.  The first time through it left a blank impression, but after listening for a second time today I am starting to appreciate it more (which is a good sign).  Still, it seems that the parts that come off best are the stereotypical Elgar, the "Land of Hope and Glory-like" march theme that opens it, and the splendidly majestic restatement of it that ends the symphony.  There's also a wonderful elegiac theme in the slow movement that is first heard about 2 or 3 minutes in and parts of the Scherzo are quite striking.  But I find that what he does best is "pomp." 

I have two other recordings of the 1st symphony on the shelf, which I briefly sampled in the close of the finale, Solti/LP and Haitink/P.   My superficial impression is that Solti seems to frenetic and misses the majesty of it and Haitink lacks the "affection" that Barbirolli brings to the score.  It doesn't help that EMI gives Haitink audio engineering that seems clearly inferior to Barbirolli's, even though it was recorded in 1984 rather than 1962.  The 80's were a bad decade for EMI.   But a performance recorded in really first rate sound would be nice, given the richness and complexity of the orchestration here.  Perhaps the Andrew Davis on Teldec (I always like Teldec sound, but Andrew Davis is a bit of an unknown) or Hickox's recordings of Chandos?  Colin Davis on LSO Live?

[DavidRoss]

Actually, it is remarkable how little Elgar I have actually heard.  I think my entire Elgar listening experience up to yesterday has been the recordings of the second symphony by Barbirolli, and the pieces on Barbirolli's "English String Music" collection (the Introduction and Allegro, and Sospiri and Elegie were added to the CD release).   The second symphony recording impressed mightily, when I heard is quite a few years ago.

Then you are in for some treats.  Though I do not believe it is entirely successful, Elgars' Dream offers much beauty and none of the jingoism many of us find difficult to take in some of Elgar's work.

Run, don't walk, to acquaint yourself with his cello concerto--for my money the finest piece of its kind in the entire repertoire.  Barbirolli's famed recording with DuPre is the standard rec, and the CD coupled with Janet Baker's Sea Songs is terrific, though for the cto I'm partial to Tortelier/Boult.  Also worth knowing is the violin cto.  You'll not go wrong with either of Kennedy's discs, and though Hahn's new one is not to everyone's taste, it has the virtue of being coupled with an extraordinary RVW Lark Ascending.  And if you're a fan of WW5tets, he wrote a number of dandy ones recorded by the Athena Ensemble for Chandos.

[Scarpia]

Run, don't walk, to acquaint yourself with his cello concerto--for my money the finest piece of its kind in the entire repertoire.  Barbirolli's famed recording with DuPre is the standard rec, and the CD coupled with Janet Baker's Sea Songs is terrific, though for the cto I'm partial to Tortelier/Boult.  Also worth knowing is the violin cto.  You'll not go wrong with either of Kennedy's discs, and though Hahn's new one is not to everyone's taste, it has the virtue of being coupled with an extraordinary RVW Lark Ascending.  And if you're a fan of WW5tets, he wrote a number of dandy ones recorded by the Athena Ensemble for Chandos.

I am lacking time rather than the discs.  I have the du Pre concerto recording, the Kennedy concerto recording with Handley as well as recordings the String Quartet, Piano Quintet, the Pomp and Circumstance Marches and the Enigma Variations.   I am a fan of woodwind quintets, but am drawn to the obtuse ones, like the Nielsen.  In samples at least, the Elgar wood wind quintets sound insufferably chipper. 

[71 dB]

Jingoism in Elgar's music is a misunderstanding.

[71 dB]

In samples at least, the Elgar wood wind quintets sound insufferably chipper.

To be honest, Elgar's music for wood wind quintet is among his weakest output, works of a youngster learning how to compose in 1878-79. It's sympathetic Mozartian music with charm but nevertheless light years from the masterpieces Elgar produced later.

Elgar's String Quartet and Piano Quintet are very overlooked. I don't know why.

[knight66]

I have the 1st Sym. with Colin Davis and the LSO. The first movement with its big tune is simply too slow. Overall the timing of the movement is not out of the way, but that famous marching melody is in stasis. Apart from that there is a lot to enjoy, especially the fiery final movement, the playing of the orchestra is especially good.

Modern engineering and an excellent performance: Elder with Barbirolli's old orchestra. It is paired with the overture, 'In th South'.

Mike