Elgar's Hillside

[Scarpia]

I find myself with this recording of the cello concerto:



Any comments?  I also have DuPre, but am reluctant to listen to that as my first exposure to the concerto, prefer to start with something more neutral.  I also found a copy of the Navarra used for dirt cheap.

[DavidRoss]

I find myself with this recording of the cello concerto:



Any comments?  I also have DuPre, but am reluctant to listen to that as my first exposure to the concerto, prefer to start with something more neutral.  I also found a copy of the Navarra used for dirt cheap.

You've never heard Elgar's cello concerto?  Wow, you're in for a treat...arguably his finest work and one of the glories of the literature.  My first exposure was Tortelier/Boult and I still prefer it, but Barbirolli's terrific and with him at the helm du Pré is not so indulgent as in her later recording with hubby Dan.  Haven't heard the Gastinel, but suggest you just pick one and get on with it, time's a wastin'!

[Elgarian]

I find myself with this recording of the cello concerto:

Any comments?

I don't know that version, so can't comment. There are at least two essential recordings. One you know about already - duPre/Barbirolli. The other is Beatrice Harrison, with Elgar conducting. Both different, and both necessary. The JDP is so famous that I don't need to say anything about it, but Beatrice is usually less talked about. She was Elgar's cellist of choice: if she was available, she was the cellist he wanted, for the concerto. She remembered one occasion when:
'before I went on the platform, Sir Edward turned to me and said, "Give it 'em Beatrice, give it 'em. Don't mind about the notes or anything. Give 'em the spirit.'
And I hope and think I did.'

(Her book, The Cello and the Nightingales, is a delight from beginning to end.)

[Scarpia]

Harrison sounds attractive, but recordings that are that old generally turn me off.

[kishnevi]

I find myself with this recording of the cello concerto:



Any comments?  I also have DuPre, but am reluctant to listen to that as my first exposure to the concerto, prefer to start with something more neutral.  I also found a copy of the Navarra used for dirt cheap.

No experience of that recording, but in my experience the soloists on Naive are fairly capable, even if I've never heard of them before (many of them seem tobe in the middle of establishing themselves with European audiences).
My first version was Maisky conducted by Sinopoli;  I've recently expanded with the Dupre/Barbirolli and Mork/Rattle.  I do find the Dupre the best of the three, with Maisky and Mork about equal. It's not that Maisky or Mork do a bad job with the work; it's just that I find Dupre that much better.   The Maisky is coupled with the Enigma Variations and the Serenade for Strings in the incarnation I have; the Mork is coupled with Britten's Cello Symphony.  (I find the Mork recording of the Britten superior to the other recording of the work I have (the Rostropovich/Britten), in large part due to the sound quality.  Make of that what you will.)

[71 dB]

The Cello Concerto is "thin" Elgar. I like Janos Starker/Slatkin because I find that performance gives sonic meat around bones. 

[Elgarian]

The Cello Concerto is "thin" Elgar.

Could you explain further what you mean by that, please? (I can't relate the word 'thin' to anything in my own experience of the cello concerto.)

[drogulus]

That rung a bell.  I forgot I have vinyl of Barbiroll/Halle on Mercury Living Presence (Dvorak) and I wonder what other undiscovered gems there are in the un-reissued Mercury catalog.   Almost all of the mono Mercuries were never issued on CD. 

     Amazon has several Phoenixa discs from the Barbirolli/Hallé O. series including Dvorak Sym. 8 & 7,9 (all stereo) and the Berlioz SF. The Berlioz is one of the best. These are all CD-Rs so the price is not outrageous.

[Scarpia]

     Amazon has several Phoenixa discs from the Barbirolli/Hallé O. series including Dvorak Sym. 8 & 7,9 (all stereo) and the Berlioz SF. The Berlioz is one of the best. These are all CD-Rs so the price is not outrageous.

What exactly is the "phoenixa" series, I have never heard of it until now.

[drogulus]

What exactly is the "phoenixa" series, I have never heard of it until now.

      These were EMI CDs released in the late '80s, recordings made from the mid to late '50s originally on the Pye label. Some may have been released as LPs on Mercury or other labels, and the Mercury team of Fine/Cozart was involved in a few of them.

   

[71 dB]

Could you explain further what you mean by that, please? (I can't relate the word 'thin' to anything in my own experience of the cello concerto.)

Compared to Elgar's other orchestral works the Cello Concerto sounds thin. It's composed for smaller orchestra (lack of players just after the war). I find the Violin Concerto more complex structurally than the Cello Concerto. Superb concerto nevertheless. 

That's all I can explain as I am not musically educated. Sorry. Perhaps you could explain this as you are SO DAMN good talking about Elgar.

[karlhenning]

That's all I can explain as I am not musically educated. Sorry. Perhaps you could explain this as you are SO DAMN good talking about Elgar.

But maybe Alan doesn't find the Cello Concerto any 'thinner' than do I. How do we explain your opinion, Poju?

[DavidW]

That's all I can explain as I am not musically educated. Sorry. Perhaps you could explain this as you are SO DAMN good talking about Elgar.

Whoa there!  He wasn't disrespecting you or attacking you just disagreeing with you, maybe.  Thin can mean alot of things, asking for clarification isn't a bad thing.

[DavidRoss]

All this talk about Elgar's finest work, the late concerto for violincello, has me hankerin' for a listen to this emotionally rich and orchestrally well balanced composition, as recorded by Paul Tortelier and the London Philharmonic Orchestra with Sir Adrian Boult. 

[Scarpia]

All this talk about Elgar's finest work, the late concerto for violincello, has me hankerin' for a listen to this emotionally rich and orchestrally well balanced composition, as recorded by Paul Tortelier and the London Philharmonic Orchestra with Sir Adrian Boult.

I can only interpret this post as gratuitous cruelty, since the recording is out of print and well-nigh impossible to obtain.   

[Elgarian]

Thin can mean alot of things, asking for clarification isn't a bad thing.

Yes, thanks David. I was genuinely asking for clarification, and certainly not wanting to ruffle any feathers.

@71dB
Different words for different folks, perhaps. I wouldn't myself use the word 'thin' to describe it, although I can't help associating the cello concerto with  the chamber works because of course all were composed together at the same place at roughly the same time (the Brinkwells cottage). So if I were to say that I feel that the cello concerto often seems to have an intimate, 'chamber' feeling to it, I suppose there might be a psychological aspect to that.

I understand your comments about the VC, by the way. There's no virtue in trying to decide 'which is best', I think, but certainly the VC has fascinated and tantalised me over the years more than any other piece of music.

[DavidRoss]

I can only interpret this post as gratuitous cruelty, since the recording is out of print and well-nigh impossible to obtain.   

Beats me why EMI doesn't reissue this as a GROC, unless they think they have it covered with the ubiquitous duPre/Barbirolli recording--which has many virtues, though it seems a bit melodramatic to me, and the LSO's winds on that recording can't hold a candle to the LPO's.

You can hear a streaming mp3 of the recording here: http://www.rhapsody.com/london-philharmonic-orchestra/elgar-falstaff-cello-concerto-etc

[Elgarian]

the ubiquitous duPre/Barbirolli recording--which has many virtues, though it seems a bit melodramatic to me

Yes, I go along with that; I'd add, though, that she's pushing so hard at the limits of where that concerto could go, that it's almost inevitable that she'd go over the top at times. That's why I have exciting one-night stands with Jacqueline, but it's Beatrice I'm in love with.

[Scarpia]

Beats me why EMI doesn't reissue this as a GROC, unless they think they have it covered with the ubiquitous duPre/Barbirolli recording--which has many virtues, though it seems a bit melodramatic to me, and the LSO's winds on that recording can't hold a candle to the LPO's.

Well, it is available in this set, which is cheaper than getting a used copy of the individual CD.




20CDs for $48 ain't a bad deal.

[Scarpia]

This one arrived today.



(After I ordered it, the Amazon page changed from "in stock" to 'this item has been discontinued by the manufacturer," so I officially have the last copy distributed in North America.)   

Don't have time to listen to it properly today, but couldn't resist listening to the opening, the orchestral exposition plus the entry of the violin.  Groves' philosophy is definitely that the orchestra should be like a proper stew, everything under thick sauce with nothing distinct evident. However, the relatively subdued orchestral sound allows Bean's entrance to be more dramatic, and it is certainly a velvety tone that he produces.

For comparison, listened to the opening of Hahn/Davis again.  Colin Davis definitely makes the orchestral exposition more spicey, with reeds and brass more penetrating in their interjections, and Hahn's entrance is more reserved and reticent, but it works in a different way (with Davis laying into the voicing of the low brass and wind chord that accompanies the end of Hahn's opening phrase). 

In any case, I sense Bean's performance will be interesting.