Elgar's Hillside

[snyprrr]

So, I put in that old Chandos disc of Elgar Favorites. Yes, it IS the most boring cd I have. Soliloquy was nice. I have to ask if everyone on this Thread is over 60. I HAVE TO!

I understand that Elgar plies the same "that which is irrevocably lost" territory that Myaskovsky does, but I have yet to hear the single movement that makes you all weep. I hear the Big Melody at the end of the Cello Concerto, ok, that lasts a few moments,... where is the sustained hopelessness that I'm seeking?

ok, and if  was drunk and depressed I'm sure I'd cry at Nimrod, but, where's the Barber?

Is it because Elgar is The Sound of Empire? Are all Elgar fans old RAF pilots who yearn for the good old days? How does Elgar stay at the top of the pack day in and day out, only to be knocked off occasionally by Brian?? Is this the biggest clue as to the conservatism of

[Mirror Image]

Sounds like to me you're just not receptive of the music snyprrr. Nobody, of course, is forcing you like his music. If you don't enjoy it, you don't enjoy it. I'm not 60 years old and I'm not an RAF pilot, so where does this leave me? Where does this leave our young Daniel (Madaboutmahler) who loves Elgar's music? You either respond to the music or you don't. You either understand the emotion of the music or you don't. It's as simple as that. Do some research. Read about the man's life. Gain some personal insight into the music instead of coming here and questioning those who love Elgar about why they love Elgar's music. Read through this thread. The most obvious answer is his music speaks to us, but all in completely different ways. If you don't understand, then that's nobody's fault but your own.

[TheGSMoeller]

I'm guessing snyprrr wouldn't be interested in Elgar Month this January.

[Karl Henning]

... where is the sustained hopelessness that I'm seeking?

The District of Columbia.

[Mirror Image]

I'm guessing snyprrr wouldn't be interested in Elgar Month this January.

Yeah, probably not.

[71 dB]

I have not heard, or own, the Hurst, Leaper, Mehta, or Elgar's own performance. I don't like Slatkin's Elgar, but, I don't like Slatkin anyway.

So how do you know if Monteux is better than Hurst, Leaper or Mehta? How can you sleep when Hurst could be better than Monteux? If not Hurst then perhaps Mehta? I want to sleep and thats why I don't think about this kind of things too much. Adrian Leaper's Enigma Variations was my first and still serves it's purpose even when I have bought several other (and perhaps better?) performances...

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Well, I am strongly an atheist but religious content of classical music doesn't bother me at all.

A Russian Gerontius? Well why not? I've heard of stranger things. Svetlanov is an excellent conductor, so I imagine the performance is an intense one.

Misses the point. Communists are against religion, yet they were willing to pay for a recording of religious music. Maybe it was done as some sort of Anglo-Soviet cultural exchange or other special event.

[71 dB]

So, I put in that old Chandos disc of Elgar Favorites. Yes, it IS the most boring cd I have. Soliloquy was nice. I have to ask if everyone on this Thread is over 60. I HAVE TO!

I understand that Elgar plies the same "that which is irrevocably lost" territory that Myaskovsky does, but I have yet to hear the single movement that makes you all weep. I hear the Big Melody at the end of the Cello Concerto, ok, that lasts a few moments,... where is the sustained hopelessness that I'm seeking?

ok, and if  was drunk and depressed I'm sure I'd cry at Nimrod, but, where's the Barber?

Is it because Elgar is The Sound of Empire? Are all Elgar fans old RAF pilots who yearn for the good old days? How does Elgar stay at the top of the pack day in and day out, only to be knocked off occasionally by Brian?? Is this the biggest clue as to the conservatism of

You clearly have a wrong way to approach Elgar's music(that is to enjoy it). You are doing just fine if you are trying to hate it. Your choice.

I am 41 (soon 42). I was 26 when I heard Enigma Variations on radio the first time. It was a life-changing moment for me. To me Elgar's music is among the finest ever written. I don't care if Elgar is The Sound of Empire or not. Who cares when the music is that brilliant!

[71 dB]

Communists are against religion

In what way? How come is there so many stunning churches in Russia with gorgeous golden onion domes if they were so much against religion?

It was a "you can worship God if you want as long as you worship your leaders more" kind of system I think...

[Karl Henning]

In what way? How come is there so many stunning churches in Russia with gorgeous golden onion domes if they were so much against religion?

The churches were built before the Communist era.

And, yes: the Communists tore down many churches.

[Mirror Image]

So how do you know if Monteux is better than Hurst, Leaper or Mehta? How can you sleep when Hurst could be better than Monteux? If not Hurst then perhaps Mehta? I want to sleep and thats why I don't think about this kind of things too much. Adrian Leaper's Enigma Variations was my first and still serves it's purpose even when I have bought several other (and perhaps better?) performances...

I never said nor do I know the Monteux is better than Hurst, Leaper, or Mehta. Where did you get that from? These conductors, especially Leaper never appealed to me in Elgar, so I never bought their recordings. It's not so much finding the best of the best, but rather finding performances that appeal to you. I like having many different performances of the same work, so what's wrong with that? Your criteria for judging music is much different than my own.

[71 dB]

The churches were built before the Communist era.

And, yes: the Communists tore down many churches.

Sure but all of them they did not destroy. Perhaps the architecture was simply too heartbreaking to be destroyed.

Anyway, I don't believe that religion was non-existing 1917-1990 in Russia.

I never said nor do I know the Monteux is better than Hurst, Leaper, or Mehta. Where did you get that from? These conductors, especially Leaper never appealed to me in Elgar, so I never bought their recordings. It's not so much finding the best of the best, but rather finding performances that appeal to you. I like having many different performances of the same work, so what's wrong with that? Your criteria for judging music is much different than my own.

I don't say that. I was only telling why I do what I do. The Mehta is coupled with Maazel's Cello Concerto. For a reason I don't remember anymore I bought that disc and it's good so no harm done.

Very often a recommended CD is so expensive that I can't justify buying it while there is tons of unknown works (to me) by other composers to be explored on cheaper discs.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I don't care if Elgar is The Sound of Empire or not. Who cares when the music is that brilliant!

I think I've said this before, but it's worth mentioning again: the "Sound of Empire" charge is unfair to Elgar and to listeners who might otherwise discover music they enjoy. The "imperial" portion of his oeuvre is very small. We don't hold it against Beethoven that he wrote Wellington's Victory or Cantata on the Elevation of Joseph II to the Imperial Dignity; we don't reject Brahms because of his bombastic Triumphlied. Elgar deserves the same consideration.

Anyway, I don't believe that religion was non-existing 1917-1990 in Russia.

Way to miss the point again! 

[Karl Henning]

Sure but all of them they did not destroy. Perhaps the architecture was simply too heartbreaking to be destroyed.

Anyway, I don't believe that religion was non-existing 1917-1990 in Russia.

But you do understand that the profession of religion was virulently discouraged?

Even as late as the 1980s, if you chose to be baptised in Moscow or St Petersburg, you would be marked for closer observation by the KGB. I don't want you to labor under any fantasy that Russians could just freely practice religion in the Soviet era.

[71 dB]

I think I've said this before, but it's worth mentioning again: the "Sound of Empire" charge is unfair to Elgar and to listeners who might otherwise discover music they enjoy. The "imperial" portion of his oeuvre is very small. We don't hold it against Beethoven that he wrote Wellington's Victory or Cantata on the Elevation of Joseph II to the Imperial Dignity; we don't reject Brahms because of his bombastic Triumphlied. Elgar deserves the same consideration.

I agree with you totally. What I mean is that even if it wasn't unfair to Elgar I wouldn't care.

Way to miss the point again! 

I must be a master in missing the point then...  I am done with this "religion in Russia" -subject.

[71 dB]

But you do understand that the profession of religion was virulently discouraged?

Even as late as the 1980s, if you chose to be baptised in Moscow or St Petersburg, you would be marked for closer observation by the KGB. I don't want you to labor under any fantasy that Russians could just freely practice religion in the Soviet era.

History isn't one of my strong points and I seem to have misundertood the position of religion in Russia. Must be those golden onion domes...

It continues to amaze me how much basic human rights have been oppressed in history.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Getting back to the subject of Elgar: I went ahead and ordered that Elder Gerontius based on the really good reviews it received. This is a work I had some trouble with in the past, and I look forward to engaging with it again.

Also, just down the road from me, the Milwaukee Symphony is performing Gerontius this season, under Edo de Waart. (not till June though)

[Karl Henning]

Also, just down the road from me, the Milwaukee Symphony is performing Gerontius this season, under Edo de Waart. (not till June though)

Excellent!

[Elgarian]

I think I've said this before, but it's worth mentioning again: the "Sound of Empire" charge is unfair to Elgar and to listeners who might otherwise discover music they enjoy. The "imperial" portion of his oeuvre is very small. We don't hold it against Beethoven that he wrote Wellington's Victory or Cantata on the Elevation of Joseph II to the Imperial Dignity; we don't reject Brahms because of his bombastic Triumphlied. Elgar deserves the same consideration.

Seems extraordinary that this needs to be said again, after all the detailed discussion in this thread, but yes, it's simply true. Thank you for saying it.

[Elgarian]

This performance seems to be done in 1971. How come does it take 40 years for an Elgarian like you to find such a "magical" performance? This is what I don't undertand about classical music. Why are the pearls hidden? If that performance really is THAT good, why aren't everybody raving about it like you are? The performance has had 40 years to gain admiration and reputation!

Well, that's a question I asked myself at the time. It's an even more remarkable phenomenon than you suggest, because it was made in 1959, not 1971. What I discovered, in fact, was that it has always been very highly regarded, but that fact simply escaped my attention all these years - mainly, I think, because I felt that I didn't need any more recordings of the Enigma Variations.

I stumbled across it at a time when I was taking a particular interest in Enigma, and clearly something 'clicked' in a very special way: it must have matched what I was looking for particularly well. It may be that if I'd listened to it 20 years earlier it may not have made the same impact. After all, I've been listening to Enigma for about 50 years, now. It would be surprising if my taste hadn't developed in that time. The main point I'm making, though, is that the whole thing was completely unexpected. I was, up till then, perfectly content with the recordings I had already.