Mozart operas

[Tsaraslondon]

Everytime I hear Mozart's operas I get bored fast. The music is too simple and uninteresting. It has Mozart's trademark fluency but not much else. I prefer Mozart's earlier operas for stronger baroque influencies and parts of Magic Flute make me even gringe in their's superficial lightness.

Now, I don't say Mozart is a bad opera composer as an absolute fact (I have learned my lesson here). I only say for some reasons I have always found Mozart's operas uninteresting and weaker than many other works by him like piano concertos. That's why I am always amazed to read Mozart is considered one of the greatest opera composers.

I'd be interested to hear your comments about my view and how you do compare Mozart and Rameau (and Händel).

Your whole post left me absolutely flabbergasted. How you can find any of the music in Mozart's operas simple and uninteresting (particularly in anything after Le Nozze di Figaro) is absolutely beyond me. The finale to Act II of Figaro alone is of a genius and complexity, far beyond anything any opera composer had attempted before. Let me quote, as he does it better than me,  Lord Harewood in Kobbe on this one opera.

Le Nozze di Figaro is an incomparable masterpiece, one moreover that has been praised throughout its history for a variety of reasons. If it was once the brilliant tunes of the solo songs which attracted audience and performers alike, it would probably nowadays be claimed that the ensembles are the main glories of the work. Nothing, one is inclined to think, could be more perfect than the finale to the second act. Such amazing invention and such dexterity cannot be excelled. Maybe it cannot, but in the last act Mozart has achieved something almost more remarkable in the feeling of anxiety which pervades music and situation alike. It is as though the tapestry of the comedy has been reversed and, instead of dazzling with its brilliance, it is shot through with flashes, not of light but darkness; it is not so much that the garden has a thundercloud hanging over it, but that there is lightning in the air. I know I always have something akin to a feeling of relief when Figaro's little B flat tune arrives to prove that once agian we have come through the web of intrigue to the safety and happiness beyond it. At no time does the opera break the bounds of comedy, even in the last act, except in so far as Mozart here, as in Don Giovanni, appears to acknowledge no boundaries where comedy is concerned.

All I would add is that I find the moment the Countess forgives the Count one of the most moving in all opera.

I would say that it is in the operas (as well as the piano concertos), that Mozart's genius finds its greatest fruition. There is no doubt that he single handedly changed the course of opera completely. In his quiet way, he was as much of a revolutionary as Wagner was, something Wagner himself no doubt acknowledged.

[Larry Rinkel]

Well then, the search goes on, and on...........
So far all the Mozart operas I have listen too, from the big box, I have thrown away.
Could not suffer the consequences when I would give them away.
After all if I think its trash, or not to my liking what else could I do huh?

Why throw them away after one hearing? You could hear them again.

[Larry Rinkel]

And opera experts, I am still waiting for some advice about both operas I posted!

I would avoid both like the plague. I've already contributed my suggestions.

[71 dB]

Your whole post left me absolutely flabbergasted. How you can find any of the music in Mozart's operas simple and uninteresting (particularly in anything after Le Nozze di Figaro) is absolutely beyond me.

I just do and I am interested to understand why.

The finale to Act II of Figaro alone is of a genius and complexity, far beyond anything any opera composer had attempted before. Let me quote, as he does it better than me,  Lord Harewood in Kobbe on this one opera.

I fail to see this genius, no matter what Lord Harewood says. What do he say about Rameau?

I would say that it is in the operas (as well as the piano concertos), that Mozart's genius finds its greatest fruition. There is no doubt that he single handedly changed the course of opera completely. In his quiet way, he was as much of a revolutionary as Wagner was, something Wagner himself no doubt acknowledged.

Piano concertos were the works that made me understand Mozart's genius long ago (he's #4 composer of all times for me) but his operas have never appealed to me except shot parts here and there (like the March in the 3rd act of Idomeneo). I must be missing something because Mozart's opera do not sound revolutionary to me.

[Harry]

Why throw them away after one hearing? You could hear them again.

Its not that I don't like the music, tis rather the performance.
I posted once but listen to them several times, before throwing them away.

[Harry]

I would avoid both like the plague. I've already contributed my suggestions.

And they are well noted, thank you again.

[Tsaraslondon]

I just do and I am interested to understand why.

I fail to see this genius, no matter what Lord Harewood says. What do he say about Rameau?

Piano concertos were the works that made me understand Mozart's genius long ago (he's #4 composer of all times for me) but his operas have never appealed to me except shot parts here and there (like the March in the 3rd act of Idomeneo). I must be missing something because Mozart's opera do not sound revolutionary to me.

Total guff! Maybe their emotional complexity is beyond you.

[Larry Rinkel]

Piano concertos were the works that made me understand Mozart's genius long ago (he's #4 composer of all times for me)

Why the operas give you trouble when the piano concertos don't is a puzzlement to me. Not only because it's the same composer, but because the slow movements of many of the piano concertos can well be described as instrumental arias.

[bhodges]

I'm still amazed by how high esteem Mozart's operas are kept. I have always found the operas to be among the weakest works of Mozart...Everytime I hear Mozart's operas I get bored fast. The music is too simple and uninteresting. It has Mozart's trademark fluency but not much else.

Well, no one has to like Mozart's operas (or any operas for that matter), but even I, who generally prefer other composers, acknowledge the craft, artistry and overall greatness of Le Nozze di Figaro, Die Zauberflöte and Don Giovanni, just to cite three.

--Bruce

[Larry Rinkel]

Well, no one has to like Mozart's operas (or any operas for that matter), but even I, who generally prefer other composers, acknowledge the craft, artistry and overall greatness of Le Nozze di Figaro, Die Zauberflöte and Don Giovanni, just to cite three.

--Bruce

But you are not a freethinker.

[71 dB]

Total guff! Maybe their emotional complexity is beyond you.

Maybe. That's what I am trying to figure out. I could just ignore the operas but instead I try to understand what's wrong.

Why the operas give you trouble when the piano concertos don't is a puzzlement to me. Not only because it's the same composer, but because the slow movements of many of the piano concertos can well be described as instrumental arias.

The piano concertos are coherent works where the orchestration and balances work. In Mozart's operas the singing feels out of place, musically too distant from the orchestra. Also, the sung melodies do not make much sense to me (very weird as I consider Mozart one of the best melodist ever). Perhaps I haven't understood the Viennese operatic singing style of late 18th century? Mozart uses also thin orchestral sound which means uninteresting harmonics.

[karlhenning]

Maybe. That's what I am trying to figure out. I could just ignore the operas but instead I try to understand what's wrong.

"What's wrong" is not a property of the Mozart operas;  start with that fact.

[karlhenning]

The piano concertos are coherent works where the orchestration and balances work.

The operas, too.

Oh, yes, I shortened your post.  There was a lot of inessential stuff which somehow followed the above.

[Harry]

I would like to ask every one, to go back to topic and not make this a Elgar II disaster thread.

Thank you.
Harry

[DavidW]

Why the operas give you trouble when the piano concertos don't is a puzzlement to me. Not only because it's the same composer, but because the slow movements of many of the piano concertos can well be described as instrumental arias.

He's just an attention whore.  Elgar, you like Dittersdorf, so your taste is sufficiently eccentric to be worthless to conventional listeners like me.  Enjoy your zaniness!  Relish it!  Don't expect people to conform to your taste since you are the non-conformist.  And stop looking for us to react against you as well.  It's tiresome, there are more interesting ways of conversely with your posters that do not involve flamebait.  

[Larry Rinkel]

He's just an attention whore.  Elgar, you like Dittersdorf, so your taste is sufficiently eccentric to be worthless to conventional listeners like me.  Enjoy your zaniness!  Relish it!  Don't expect people to conform to your taste since you are the non-conformist.  And stop looking for us to react against you as well.  It's tiresome, there are more interesting ways of conversely with your posters that do not involve flamebait.  

You mean I wasted a good post on a whore?

[Gurn Blanston]

You mean I wasted a good post on a whore?

'fraid so, Larry.

I enjoyed it though.



----------------
Now playing:  Kempff / Leister / Fournier - Bia 156 Op 11 Trio in Bb for Piano, Clarinet & Cello 2nd mvmt - Adagio

[Larry Rinkel]

'fraid so, Larry.

I enjoyed it though.

So did I, so long as I don't get an STD.

[wagnernn]

I can't imagine what would happen if Mozart didn't compose operas.When the heavy Wagnerian and the Italian tradition make me bored ,just  Mozart's opera keep me balance (of course, I find his Italian operas different form Verdi and Bellini)

[max]

I don't know why when listening to Mozart operas the word SUPERMAN always comes to mind. It feels as if NOTHING was beyond him - except a longer life!