Mozart piano sonatas

[king ubu]

Gould's Mozart recordings are the only ones I cannot tolerate.  His performance is an assault on the music.

Guess that's more or less the consensus about them ... please allow me to be of a different opinion, even though I'm unable to formulate reasons why I think it's good.

[San Antone]

Guess that's more or less the consensus about them ... please allow me to be of a different opinion, even though I'm unable to formulate reasons why I think it's good.

Absolutely.    I do not mean to impugn your opinion; each of us has their own reasons, even if we cannot say why, we like what we like.

Enjoy!

[Florestan]

Bezuidenhout is very stylish and urbane—"concert" Mozart, for a large and appreciative audience. He traverses all the keyboard works not just sonatas, as well, which reveals lots of very high quality music often left out of complete sets. The closest comparison among modern instrument performers would be Claudio Arrau (M&A) or Vladimir Horowitz.

(brainfart: definitely not Schiff)

Is this meant as a compliment to, or a criticism of, Schiff? 

I haven't heard him in the sonatas, but his "Eine kleine gigue" disc, featuring variations and other works, is a marvel of musicality and poetry. Highly recommended, if you ask me (nobody did, but I just couldn't resist). 

[Jo498]

I think Gould's (studio, I only know these) are all over the place. Some are close to travesties/parodies (sonata facile), others are pretty good and not all that far from "normal" (as far as I remember the a minor one, probably also 576) and some are "thought provoking". E.g. he plays the famous alla turca rather slow (which could be closer to the allegretto intended than the usual fast tempo) and he has an especially interesting way with the variations in that sonata K 331. He plays already the theme very slowly and halting and overall one does not get the impression of a theme being varied but about the music being slowly put together, beginning with the theme and the first variations so that only when the fast last section of that movement comes around everything seems to fall into place. Although the beginning is too slow, I find it fascinating overall and it is an antidote against all to "china doll"-like readings.

While I don't share the extreme distaste of some listeners with them, overall I don't think they are among Gould's best efforts, neither taken at face value (like most of his Bach) nor as interesting "deconstructions" (like some of his Beethoven or the K 331).

[amw]

Is this meant as a compliment to, or a criticism of, Schiff? 

I haven't heard him in the sonatas, but his "Eine kleine gigue" disc, featuring variations and other works, is a marvel of musicality and poetry. Highly recommended, if you ask me (nobody did, but I just couldn't resist). 

Neither. Schiff's style is different—more personal and intimate, more delicate in touch. His modern piano cycle doesn't do it for me but these qualities make me appreciate his fortepiano recordings (with Schiff more than other pianists I find that the instruments often make a big difference; which I also don't mean as a criticism since he does choose them very carefully and the resulting sonority is a major component of his interpretation).

I had originally listed him as similar to Bezuidenhout when I in fact meant Horowitz. Bezuidenhout's style is not similar to Schiff's except in that it produces results of very high quality.

E.g. he plays the famous alla turca rather slow (which could be closer to the allegretto intended than the usual fast tempo)

Contemporary accounts do indeed suggest that the typical tempo of an Allegretto was about quarter = 76ish, and it seems as though the tempo should be about the same as the "turkish" movement of Haydn's "Military" (with the note values doubled). I don't think even Gould plays it that slowly, so there's clearly a market niche for Tzimon Barto waiting to be filled

[Florestan]

Neither. Schiff's style is different—more personal and intimate, more delicate in touch. His modern piano cycle doesn't do it for me but these qualities make me appreciate his fortepiano recordings (with Schiff more than other pianists I find that the instruments often make a big difference; which I also don't mean as a criticism since he does choose them very carefully and the resulting sonority is a major component of his interpretation).

Thanks for clarifying it; makes sense to me. I completely agree with your assessment of Schiff. Are you familiar with his Schubert fortepiano disc? I think it's superb.

[Omicron9]

I think Gould's (studio, I only know these) are all over the place. Some are close to travesties/parodies (sonata facile), others are pretty good and not all that far from "normal" (as far as I remember the a minor one, probably also 576) and some are "thought provoking". E.g. he plays the famous alla turca rather slow (which could be closer to the allegretto intended than the usual fast tempo) and he has an especially interesting way with the variations in that sonata K 331. He plays already the theme very slowly and halting and overall one does not get the impression of a theme being varied but about the music being slowly put together, beginning with the theme and the first variations so that only when the fast last section of that movement comes around everything seems to fall into place. Although the beginning is too slow, I find it fascinating overall and it is an antidote against all to "china doll"-like readings.

While I don't share the extreme distaste of some listeners with them, overall I don't think they are among Gould's best efforts, neither taken at face value (like most of his Bach) nor as interesting "deconstructions" (like some of his Beethoven or the K 331).

"Parodies" is a good way to put it, based on what I've heard (first two discs of the studio cycle).  Or maybe it's just that Gould/Mozart is an acquired taste.

-09

[amw]

Thanks for clarifying it; makes sense to me. I completely agree with your assessment of Schiff. Are you familiar with his Schubert fortepiano disc? I think it's superb.

ECM? I wish! Those releases are expensive I will probably get it someday though, I've already got his Diabellis & the Beethoven cycle & most of the ECM Bach so I am collecting them slowly >.>

[Florestan]

ECM? I wish! Those releases are expensive

Unblock me from sending you PMs, please.You won't be disappointed, I promise. 

[amw]

Oops. PM inbox was full. I've deleted some messages now

[Florestan]

Oops. PM inbox was full. I've deleted some messages now

Thanks. You have fresh mail.

[Jo498]

The Romance in the military symphony is a little too slow for a (typical) march, it is more like genially ambling along. The Alla Turca is usually played too fast for a march. If I go through those tunes in my head I can agree that they could/should be much closer in tempo than one usually hears them. Now bandmasters around here can probably explain how this is done today and there is certainly a broad range from funeral marches to fast marches but I think "typical", moderately fast marches are around 100 bpm?

As for the roots; another listener once said Gould played Mozart like Scarlatti. Not sure I want to hear Scarlatti like this but the features of usually very fast tempi, non legato playing and the above mentioned "too loud" accompaniment don't make that impression completely outlandish.

It seems generally agreed that they are an acquired taste (to an even larger extent than most other Gould), but nobody can tell beforehand who will acquire that taste and who won't

[Mahlerian]

The Romance in the military symphony is a little too slow for a (typical) march, it is more like genially ambling along. The Alla Turca is usually played too fast for a march. If I go through those tunes in my head I can agree that they could/should be much closer in tempo than one usually hears them. Now bandmasters around here can probably explain how this is done today and there is certainly a broad range from funeral marches to fast marches but I think "typical", moderately fast marches are around 100 bpm?

I can pretty accurately approximate 120 bpm if I imagine "Stars and Stripes Forever"...

[André]

Lili Kraus' M&A set is just the ticket. Brautigam is very thought provoking, I enjoy this approach. I also like Peter Katin very much: unfussy, direct. Hamelin may sound unfussy and direct to the point of quasi blandness unti you pay close attention to his refined handling of the voices. But is it Mozart ? Kraus has lots of 'face' to her playing, Hamelin seems to avoid this 'take charge' approach at all costs.

[Omicron9]

I've been listening to Barenboim's Mozart sonatas on YouTube and enjoying them.  Does anyone have his box set of the sonatas; if so, thoughts/comments?

TIA,
-09

[bwv 1080]

Bart van Oort on fortepiano, these works are too 'thin' for me on a modern piano while they push a period instrument

[The One]

My favorites on this subject are different mixtures of Badura-Skoda, Bezuidenhout, Brendel's late, Eschenbach, Jando, Kraus, Pires, Schiff, Uchida, Van Oort and Zacharias sets. I only deviate for No 8/K310 of Goode, Gilels and Perahia

[prémont]

Bart van Oort on fortepiano, these works are too 'thin' for me on a modern piano while they push a period instrument

+1

[Omicron9]

Greetings and a happy 2018.

To follow up, I've purchased two "complete" recordings:

Modern: Daniel Barenboim.  I feel as if he is adhering to the score and not putting his stamp on it, which is what I was seeking.

HIP: Kristian Bezuidenhout.  I enjoy his readings, and the PF on the recording sounds lovely, although in spots there are some intonation issues.  Why do labels, performers, and producers allow this?  But overall, I really like it.

Thanks to all for their help, suggestions, and patience. 

Kind regards,
-09

[Mahlerian]

HIP: Kristian Bezuidenhout.  I enjoy his readings, and the PF on the recording sounds lovely, although in spots there are some intonation issues.  Why do labels, performers, and producers allow this?  But overall, I really like it.

It could potentially be a conscious decision to tune the instrument in a manner other than equal temperament.  I hear this more often on pre-18th century music, but approximations of equal temperament certainly were not adopted all at once.