Mozart piano sonatas

Started by Mark, September 20, 2007, 05:16:34 AM

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George

Quote from: Que on September 28, 2009, 11:06:10 AM
Review.

MDT

Q

Thanks for that, Que! I like the last paragraph:

QuoteNow to the essence of this critique: the performance of the music. Pires's view of the piano sonatas has not changed radically but for Denon there is an innocence that perfectly reflects the music. If you want more dynamics, phrasing, and such artistic virtuosity consider DG, because arguably her technique has matured but I do not like it. Try a lollipop, the famous Sonata No.11 in A major "Alla Turca". Whilst the later recordings dazzle the mind these originals melt the heart. Even if the huge price advantage were reversed I would still choose this "fresh reissue". It is more quintessentially Mozart and more Pires.

SonicMan46

Quote from: DarkAngel on September 28, 2009, 09:10:30 AM
I can tell from the samples that I will almost certainly be big fan of Klara Wurtz set........glad this forum alerted me to it!
I know almost nothing about Wurtz since she has a small recorded output so far, very attractive physically if that matters  0:)


Hello DarkAngel - I've own the Wurtz Mozart piano sonatas for a while and offer another endorsement!  :D

Also, her 3-CD Schumann box (3 discs) is another fabulous bargain, if you're into Bob's solo piano output -  ;D


Coopmv

Quote from: George on September 28, 2009, 06:51:04 AM
If your girl power spree continues, may I suggest:



Link to that set on amazon

George,  How do you like Lili Kraus?  I have a few of her recordings on Vanguard.

George

Quote from: Coopmv on September 28, 2009, 07:00:07 PM
George,  How do you like Lili Kraus?  I have a few of her recordings on Vanguard.

I've only heard that Mozart set, but I like it a great deal.

Brian

Quote from: SonicMan on September 28, 2009, 01:23:41 PM
Also, her 3-CD Schumann box (3 discs) is another fabulous bargain, if you're into Bob's solo piano output -  ;D



I can vouch for that fabulous box, and I'm hardly even a Schumann fan!

DarkAngel

#145
Quote from: DarkAngel on September 28, 2009, 06:45:18 AM
Mini buying spree for "girl power" sonata sets, placed order for:



I was unaware of Klara Wurtz/Brilliant set till reading this thread, the samples sound extremely promising and the price is right.
The Pires/DG was always on my potential buy list, elegant nimble passages from the sound samples, not discussed much
here however so I will get the ball rolling.......reduced price for boxset makes it a buy

Been listening to my sonata sets...........I am not going to be member of the Klara Wurtz fan club for these works   :'(
I will join the Maria Pires fan club

Wurtz doesn't do anything wrong but there are others who gave give more insights and enjoyment to me.
Take the very familiar K545 Sonata facile, everyone knows the melody but amazing to hear the differences each artist
brings. Wurtz sounds fine but there is no life or animated lift here, a bit flat sounding and by the numbers. Maria Pires sparkles by contrast, playing almost same timing her phrasing and lifted rythms bring the melody to life and dances around the room, brings a smile to my face.

Compared to Uchida again Pires wins for me, Uchida does have some nice creative touches but her broad romantic style of playing just never sparkles in these works, just sounds a touch slow and reserved to me and never quite takes off.

I did also check short samples from Kraus and LaRocha but heard nothing that sounded better than Pires to me.........
So for now Pires gets my vote as best female artist for complete set of Mozart sonatas.

Bulldog

Quote from: Brian on September 28, 2009, 07:38:19 PM
I can vouch for that fabulous box, and I'm hardly even a Schumann fan!

Although I'm a big Schumann piano fan, I don't find the Wurtz box all that wonderful.  Excellent though it is, there are plenty of pianists who surpass her.

ccar

#147
Quote from: DarkAngel on October 04, 2009, 12:50:30 PM
Been listening to my sonata sets...........I am not going to be member of the Klara Wurtz fan club for these works   :'(
I will join the Maria Pires fan club
Wurtz doesn't do anything wrong but there are others who gave give more insights and enjoyment to me.
Take the very familiar K545 Sonata facile, everyone knows the melody but amazing to hear the differences each artist
brings. Wurtz sounds fine but there is no life or animated lift here, a bit flat sounding and by the numbers. Maria Pires sparkles by contrast, playing almost same timing her phrasing and lifted rythms bring the melody to life and dances around the room, brings a smile to my face.
Compared to Uchida again Pires wins for me, Uchida does have some nice creative touches but her broad romantic style of playing just never sparkles in these works, just sounds a touch slow and reserved to me and never quite takes off.
I did also check short samples from Kraus and LaRocha but heard nothing that sounded better than Pires to me.........
So for now Pires gets my vote as best female artist for complete set of Mozart sonatas.


Biased as I may be for also being portuguese (and for listening to her  in concert since my teens),  I believe Maria João Pires is one of the most interesting performing artists still playing.
Not a pianist of a wide repertoire.  Mostly Bach, Schubert, Chopin, Beethoven, Schumann and, of course, Mozart. The Chopin Nocturnes and the Mozart sonatas were the only complete sets she recorded and the sonatas she did it twice. Her Mozart renditions are a mixture of a very intense  but intimate expression with a sense of "natural" we only get from the very great musicians.  With an inspired "respiration"  for the musical phrasing she helps us keeping the tension and the interest in every piece.

She may not be the "best", but she certainly is one of the most interesting readers of the Mozart sonatas around, male or female.  

Carlos


DarkAngel

#148
Since I was making international order at Presto UK for Buchberger Haydn SQ boxset, I also dropped in the basket the previously mention Lubimov sonata set using forte piano.............love Brautigam and Immerseel forte piano sonatas so I got to know how these stack up



Quote from: Antoine Marchand on November 16, 2008, 10:55:43 AM
I'm curious if somebody knows to Alexei Lubimov.

He's one of my favorite fortepianists, especially when Mozart is concerned.

Lubimov recorded the complete piano sonatas in the nineties; but currently that integral seems largely forgotten by critics and public; I don't know the reason why.

In these recordings he plays some beautiful replicas based on the instruments preferred by Mozart himself (i.e., Johann Andreas Stein and Anton Walter fortepianos).

These recordings were OOP for a while; but now have been repackaged at budget price by Warner Classics/Erato: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3508789?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist

Here two examples about the Lubimov's mastery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sZbxBprEFY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xlFi4JYoeQ

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bulldog on October 04, 2009, 12:53:59 PM
Although I'm a big Schumann piano fan, I don't find the Wurtz box all that wonderful.  Excellent though it is, there are plenty of pianists who surpass her.

Don - I have 3 complete sets of Mozart's Piano Sonatas, including the Wurtz box; however, she is my least favorite although I'm sure plenty would be pleased, esp. @ the price of admission.  But the comments on Maria Pires in these works has now stimulated my interest - I'm assuming that you've heard her in these piano sonatas, so does she outdo Wurtz and possibly others?  Thanks for any comments & suggestions - Dave

DarkAngel

#150
Quote from: DarkAngel on October 09, 2009, 05:00:10 PM
Since I was making international order at Presto UK for Buchberger Haydn SQ boxset, I also dropped in the basket the previously mention Lubimov sonata set using forte piano.............love Brautigam and Immerseel forte piano sonatas so I got to know how these stack up

Finished the Lubimov set, uses 3 different forte pianos......which is the only problem, and keeps keeps the Brautigam set as reference version for forte piano. CD1, CD2 use a Stein replica which I didn't much care for, too bright and lightweight sounding for me. CD3,CD4,CD5 use a different later Stein replica that sounds much better to me, fuller richer sound that Lubimov plays very dramatically......much closer competition for Brautigam.

Finally CD6 uses a replica Anton Walter forte piano from a museum and now we have magic!
If only all 6CDs used this instrument we may have a new reference set, but at least we have a glimpse of Lubimov under ideal conditions
and he is very impressive indeed. Full rich tones, vibrant clear treble, sweet yet clear sound.............animated style with playful lifted rythms that sound just right with Mozart  :D

jlaurson

#151
Quote from: DarkAngel on October 17, 2009, 02:20:09 PM
Finished the Lubimov set, uses 3 different forte pianos......which is the only problem... A Stein replica which I didn't much care for, too bright and lightweight sounding for me. A different later Stein replica sounds much better to me, fuller richer sound... Finally CD6 uses a replica Anton Walter forte piano from a museum and now we have magic!
If only all 6CDs used this instrument we may have a new reference set... full rich tones, vibrant clear treble, sweet yet clear sound...

Of course even richer, fuller, sweeter sounds could be had with a regular grand piano, you know.  ;D

If I wanted to poke fun at you (of course I'd never), I'd mis-paraphrase you: "Man, I wish my forte-pianos could just sound (more) like a Steinway D... then I'd have found my fave HIP Mozart."

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: jlaurson on October 17, 2009, 03:44:16 PM

If I wanted to poke fun at you (of course I'd never), I'd say mis-paraphrase you: "Man, I wish my forte-pianos could just sound (more) like a Steinway D... then I'd have found my fave HIP Mozart."

You and your monochrome Steinways, guys.

Black sarcophaguses for all color and contrast in music:

"Performances on modern string and wind instruments, and on the ubiquitous Steinway grand, will soon come to seem anachronistic and belonging 'historically' to the twentieth century" Peter Grahame Woolf (review of Early Music Weekend at Greenwich).

Amen.

:D

jlaurson

#153
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on October 17, 2009, 04:14:12 PM
You and your monochrome Steinways, guys.

Black sarcophaguses for all color and contrast in music:

"Performances on modern string and wind instruments, and on the ubiquitous Steinway grand, will soon come to seem anachronistic and belonging 'historically' to the twentieth century" Peter Grahame Woolf (review of Early Music Weekend at Greenwich).

Amen.

:D

Cute, but not quite true. A Steinway is only as monochrome as the player sitting in front of it. It can be made to sound any number of ways... the only thing that isn't possible is to make it give notes a quick natural decay. Nor are they ubiquitous... never have there been as many varying instrument types and performance approaches in music as in the late 20th, early 21st ct.. PGWoolf himself is part of the color of our times that he's busy denying.


Franco

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on October 17, 2009, 04:14:12 PM
You and your monochrome Steinways, guys.

Black sarcophaguses for all color and contrast in music:

"Performances on modern string and wind instruments, and on the ubiquitous Steinway grand, will soon come to seem anachronistic and belonging 'historically' to the twentieth century" Peter Grahame Woolf (review of Early Music Weekend at Greenwich).

Amen.

:D


This POV mystifies me.  Can you summarize why you prefer the fortepiano over the modern piano?

Bulldog

Quote from: SonicMan on October 09, 2009, 05:21:51 PM
Don - I have 3 complete sets of Mozart's Piano Sonatas, including the Wurtz box; however, she is my least favorite although I'm sure plenty would be pleased, esp. @ the price of admission.  But the comments on Maria Pires in these works has now stimulated my interest - I'm assuming that you've heard her in these piano sonatas, so does she outdo Wurtz and possibly others?  Thanks for any comments & suggestions - Dave

Yes, I think Pires is a definite improvement over Wurtz, but I do prefer Uchida over both.

Coopmv

I am considering this set and I already have the set by Eschenbach, which I think is decent.  As Mozart is not even among my top 5 favorite composers, I am not going out to get many versions of his PS's.


DarkAngel

#157
Quote from: Coopmv on October 17, 2009, 06:17:30 PM
I am considering this set and I already have the set by Eschenbach, which I think is decent.  As Mozart is not even among my top 5 favorite composers, I am not going out to get many versions of his PS's.


By all means get the Brautigam/BIS, he uses a replica Anton Walter 1795 fortepiano that sounds wonderful (like CD6 of Lubimov set) Sounds very different from Eschenbach/DG which I also have, like discovering them all over again with the clarified tonal quality
of good forte piano performance  :D

Perhaps the best forte piano Mozart sonatas I have heard are on 2CD set for Immerseel/Sony Vivarte, also uses replica Anton Walter instrument. Immerseel is much more animated here than in his concerto set......too bad not a complete set








Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Franco on October 17, 2009, 04:48:57 PM
This POV mystifies me.  Can you summarize why you prefer the fortepiano over the modern piano?

Well, Franco, I could say many things: great range of colors; the importance of to use instruments known for the composer; not metal frames; great individuality of every instrument, even when it has been made for the same builder, etc. But we know that nothing of this – or even more accurate explanations - will change our (your) own preferences or it will generate a real dialogue between us because your position is very clear and simply you don't share the preference for this instrument:

Quote from: Franco on October 16, 2009, 08:13:28 AM
Well, you can forget about me expressing preference for the fortepiano - ain't gonna happen.  I find it a curious instrument and will occasionally indulge in a recording with that instrument just for something different, but in no way do I find it preferable to the piano. 

One last thing, anyway: I always have liked the reply of the fortepianist Olga Tverskaya when she was asked on her own preference for the fortepiano in Schubert:
 
"My view is that the fortepiano is the only surviving witness of how Schubert's works actually sounded, and so it is the most reliable guide for my interpretations.

"By trusting the instrument entirely and never imposing upon it, I let it tell me which tempos and dynamics are most appropriate to the style of the piece I wish to play. With its enormous range of colours, its warm, singing, yet deep and powerful sound, the instrument itself gives vivid insight into the phrases, forms and contrasts as well as the atmospheres Schubert had in mind when composing. Because the instrument is so evocative, a strong sense of intimacy has grown up between me and the music Schubert wrote, to such an extent that I feel I am close to him, that he and I share feelings and thoughts with the listener."


:)

DarkAngel

Quote from: jlaurson on October 17, 2009, 03:44:16 PM
Of course even richer, fuller, sweeter sounds could be had with a regular grand piano, you know.  ;D

I enjoy Haydn, Mozart etc on grand piano (or even better Bosendorfer Imperial) and the first wave of forte piano specialists like
Bilson, Tan, Lubin I found interesting but never preferable, I found them lacking in a few key areas........piano versions were safe from these relics of the past

But then a few years ago I discovered Brautigam's Haydn/Mozart solo work using Anton Walter instrument, all the sudden I was hearing things I never heard before and music was more interesting and colorful......I had been converted to value of good forte piano when used for composers who themselves wrote music using them. One does need to be selective however since not all forte piano versions sound great to me