Mozart piano sonatas

[Herman]

Has anyone had a chance to sample any of Eric Heidsieck's new Mozart sonata cycle on Victor?  I have a hunch it might be good.

I have been looking a those two; but I just can't explain to myself getting yet another Mozart cycle. Now Heidsieck's Mozart concertos is a different matter perhaps.

[Todd]

Rather fancying the pianism of Eric Heidsieck – his LvB cycle is astonishingly good, his old EMI Faure, too, and his Debussy Preludes, especially Book I is superb – I decided to try his Mozart cycle on Victor, even at a very high price (over $25 per disc).  I was not disappointed, though there's one caveat: sound.  The recordings, made between 1991 and 1993, all sound a bit bright and metallic, which seems standard for Heidsieck recordings.  The fifth volume, recorded in a different venue than the others, is a bit more distant than I care for as well.  To the playing, it was essentially what I expected.  Heidsieck indulges himself.  He plays around with tempi quite a bit, dragging out some passages and hurrying others.  Yet, ultimately, it all works.  Heidsieck brings a sense of joy and, for lack of a better word, discovery, to many of the works.  Though it's all well prepared, it sounds fresh.  It doesn't displace my favorites in this repertoire – Walter Klien and Lili Kraus among older sets, and Michael Endres among newer ones – but it will earn repeated spins, that's for sure.

[George]

Though it's all well prepared, it sounds fresh.  It doesn't displace my favorites in this repertoire – Walter Klien and Lili Kraus among older sets, and Michael Endres among newer ones – but it will earn repeated spins, that's for sure.

I splurged today and picked up Lili Kraus's later set on Sony. Have you heard both sets? Do you prefer one over the other? I have read that the Music and Arts set is better, performance-wise. 

[Todd]

Do you prefer one over the other?

The earlier cycle is indeed the better one.

[prémont]

The earlier cycle is indeed the better one.

Certainly. But is the later cycle that bad after all?

[Herman]

Rather fancying the pianism of Eric Heidsieck – his LvB cycle is astonishingly good, his old EMI Faure, too, and his Debussy Preludes, especially Book I is superb –

Your use of the words "old EMI" seems deliberate. I have listened to Heidsieck's Barcarolles (Fauré) on Calliopé a lot recently, I believe they are from 1979 (not sure). You like those less than the "old EMI" Nocturnes?

I'm rather intrigued by Heidsieck's Mozart Piano Concertos  -  I don't have any, but they look enticing.

[prémont]

Todd, I share your affinity to Klien and Endres.  All in all I own about a dozen Mozart sonata sets. I read your words about Heidsieck (who´s Beethoven cycle I equally share your opinion of) in that way, that his  Mozart set - as opposed to his Beethoven set - isn´t a mandatory addition to my collection. Do you think I am wrong?

[George]

The earlier cycle is indeed the better one.

Certainly. But is the later cycle that bad after all?

I haven't opened the later one yet, so I could return it. Any reason to keep it?

EDIT: Jed Distler seems to love it, for what that's worth - http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=10729

[ccar]

The most stimulating Mozart sonatas I have heard in the last few years are the Friedrich Gulda's DG 1980-1982 recordings.
Stimulating in the sense that I felt constantly surprised by "new" inner melodies in the pieces, by the invention of the phrasing and by the exuberance of the tone. Not for the faint of heart and for many schockingly unorthodox.
But for sheer musicality Gulda's reading is a brilliant example of his courageous individual talent.

[Todd]

Certainly. But is the later cycle that bad after all?

No, not at all.

Your use of the words "old EMI" seems deliberate.

It was.  I just used the word to distinguish between his major label days and his later recordings.  I've not yet sampled his Calliope Faure, though I believe I will sometime in the new year.

I'm rather intrigued by Heidsieck's Mozart Piano Concertos  -  I don't have any, but they look enticing.

They do indeed.  What would be a treat would be if EMI reissued his complete cycle from the 60s to compare with the newer recordings.  I think at a minimum I should try some of the new recordings.

Do you think I am wrong?

No, I don't think I'd consider it mandatory, unless you really love Heidsieck.

I haven't opened the later one yet, so I could return it. Any reason to keep it?

I'd keep both to compare and contrast.  You may like the later cycle more, and it has its strengths.

The most stimulating Mozart sonatas I have heard in the last few years are the Friedrich Gulda's DG 1980-1982 recordings.

The cycle is quite good, but as an alternative take.  It's 'harder' than most Mozart.  Alas, the sound really sucks in places.

[Mandryka]

The later Kraus seemed more dramatic. I only borrowed the earlier Kraus, so I can't compare right now for you, but I remember thinking they were on the whole more fun. More light hearted

I envy you having both. With these complete sets I find generalisations (like mine above) are really useless. You have to compare on a sonata by sonata basis.

[DarkAngel]

The most stimulating Mozart sonatas I have heard in the last few years are the Friedrich Gulda's DG 1980-1982 recordings.
Stimulating in the sense that I felt constantly surprised by "new" inner melodies in the pieces, by the invention of the phrasing and by the exuberance of the tone. Not for the faint of heart and for many schockingly unorthodox.
But for sheer musicality Gulda's reading is a brilliant example of his courageous individual talent.

Thanks for the tip these sound great to me, Gulda uses a Bosendorfer Imperial which gives a sound closer to the forte piano Mozart would actually use, very exciting work. I was really impressed with his renditions of the early sonatas, quite dramatic compared to other generic sounding sets..........

I had to do a sound check since cassette tapes used as  source for these, I have no serious problem with the sound although obviously the original master tapes from 1980 sessions would be much better if they can ever be found.......order has been placed. Found some sound samples from German Amazon:

]http://www.amazon.de/Gulda-Mozart-Tapes-sonatas-fantasy/dp/B000CQ741A]

[DarkAngel]

Gulda sonatas trivia...........
I also read somewhere that there was a missing section of several minutes to one of the sonatas and Gulda's son used a Bosendorfer Imperial to record the missing section..........

[Mandryka]

Thanks for the tip these sound great to me, Gulda uses a Bosendorfer Imperial which gives a sound closer to the forte piano Mozart would actually use, very exciting work. I was really impressed with his renditions of the early sonatas, quite dramatic compared to other generic sounding sets..........

I had to do a sound check since cassette tapes used as  source for these, I have no serious problem with the sound although obviously the original master tapes from 1980 sessions would be much better if they can ever be found.......order has been placed. Found some sound samples from German Amazon:

]http://www.amazon.de/Gulda-Mozart-Tapes-sonatas-fantasy/dp/B000CQ741A]

I am sure your're right about the sound -- Gulda's pianiforte sounds very similar to Lubimov's fortepiano.

[Todd]

I had to do a sound check since cassette tapes used as  source for these, I have no serious problem with the sound

How did you do a sound check?  DG was reluctant to issue the second set because of the sound, and listening through even a decent stereo reveals the distortion and overload all throughout the cycle, but especially in the second two-disc set, with K310 being particularly bad.  If the sound of this set is considered anything close to good, then all ideas about quality sound reproduction are gone.

[DarkAngel]

How did you do a sound check?  DG was reluctant to issue the second set because of the sound, and listening through even a decent stereo reveals the distortion and overload all throughout the cycle, but especially in the second two-disc set, with K310 being particularly bad.  If the sound of this set is considered anything close to good, then all ideas about quality sound reproduction are gone.

I posted link above from German Amazon that has 30 second samples of all tracks (256k MP3), for me there is no serious audio problems that would prevent me from enjoying these even K310......so order has been placed.

Perhaps CCAR can comment more details about final complete CD version sound.......
Here are Amazon samples for Vol II, sound same as Vol I above:

http://www.amazon.de/Gulda-Mozart-Tapes-Vol-2/dp/B000UVLJI6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1259614591&sr=1-4

[Todd]

I posted link above from German Amazon that has 30 second samples of all tracks (256k MP3), for me there is no serious audio problems that would prevent me from enjoying these even K310......so order has been placed.

If you listen via computer I guess it's no problem, which is what I must assume you did, but again, with an even modest hifi or even a portable system with decent headphones, the sonic shortcomings are obvious.  It doesn't always detract from the playing, but sometimes it certainly does.  I've heard worse sounding piano recordings (eg, Ciani's Beethoven, Klien's Brahms) but the Gulda set is in sometimes harmful, sub-par sound.  His use of a Bosendorfer and the resultant approximation of a fortepiano is something different altogether.

[ccar]

Perhaps CCAR can comment more details about final complete CD version sound.......

I would prefer that every recording was made in near "optimal" sound conditions. But over the years, when I try to look more into the musical "magic" in the performances I give much less attention to the (never ideal) recording conditions.

So, let me be clear from the start – the sound quality of the FG Mozart sonatas is obviously not digital and even for 1980-82 you should not expect perfect studio conditions, because the "amateur" tape source.

But, in spite the variable distortion in some passages (more palpable in K.310), the sound quality is globally very acceptable. This is particularly true if you are not looking for (or overdiscussing) the hi-fi sonics of the recording and you discover what, at least for me, is the rare musical interest and beauty of this reading.
 
Also very interestingly, particularly in these days, is that Paul Gulda and the DG engineers had the courage to avoid excessive digital retouching in the master process, giving us not only the peculiar tone character of the Bosendorfer Imperial chosen by Friedrich Gulda, but also the feeling that we are not in a grand concert hall but more in the closed ambiance of a "chamber" piano performance.

As already commented some 30 seconds of the last movement of K. 457 were missing and Paul Gulda recorded it with a similar piano to complete the performance.

Like I said before, these are not for the faint of heart - and certainly not for the "perfect sound" lovers.

[Josquin des Prez]

My favored performers of Mozart sonata are Casadesus and Moravec. Between the two i really found no use to collect more, though i don't listen to those works often anyway. Casadesus really opened my eyes on how to perform those compositions with his recording of the K332.

[DarkAngel]

So, let me be clear from the start – the sound quality of the FG Mozart sonatas is obviously not digital and even for 1980-82 you should not expect perfect studio conditions, because the "amateur" tape source.

Gulda/DG sonatas
I got my CD version of the Gulda "Mozart Tape" sonatas which uses a cassette tape as music source since original master was lost. The sound is clear and detailed but it is miked closely and when the music is pushed hard at climaxes sound becomes harsh.......a valuable document to hear Gulda work his magic, but does become a bit fatiguing to listen to for exetneded periods compared to professional studio version........as CCAR correctly points out