Mozart piano sonatas

[Florestan]

Thanks, Cosi bel do, I appreciate your effort to describe that wonderful journey. Please, keep up the good work!

What do you think of Ingrid Haebler´s set, if you have listened to it?

[Cosi bel do]

Cosi,
How does Uchida fare in these early sonatas (in your humble opinion)? I always preferred her over Barenboim (but I think I was charmed by her live performance and a very strong first impression) and viewed her as Mozart's champion in the sonatas.

I'll post more comments on Uchida when I'll have listened to all 18 sonatas. For the moment... Well at first let me say I'm not an Uchida fan, but I am very satisfied by what she does in these sonatas. Of course it is still a little cold and formal, it doesn't have the rhetorical (and even at times spiritual) depth you can find in the best versions, but it is still supremely played, the tempo is almost always perfectly chosen, dynamics are very precise, with a very beautiful piano sound... I'll see how the next sonatas sound like but I'd say it might be a reference among complete sets, while Barenboim might be more uneven (but really overwhelming at times, whereas I couldn't say that about Uchida).

Where is Virssaladze's recording of 282? I'd like to hear it.

(Are you in Paris? Are you going to hear Sokolov next week?)

Here :

http://www.youtube.com/v/XJYIcQtVdDs

I don't think it exists on CD... Thanks to the great incontrario motu we can hear it

(And yes... and I am going )

Thanks, Cosi bel do, I appreciate your effort to describe that wonderful journey. Please, keep up the good work!

What do you think of Ingrid Haebler´s set, if you have listened to it?

You're welcome.
I will listen to Haebler afterwards. I couldn't put all complete sets in the comparison but I well intend to listen to her also in the near future, with a second crop (Zacharias, Schiff, Perlemuter, Oort, Kraus II, Pires II, Brautigam).

[Old Listener]

I will listen to Haebler afterwards. I couldn't put all complete sets in the comparison but I well intend to listen to her also in the near future, with a second crop (Zacharias, Schiff, Perlemuter, Oort, Kraus II, Pires II, Brautigam).

there is an earlier set on denon.  some think it better.

edit: perhaps later than the philips set.

[Mandryka]

there is an earlier set on denon.  some think it better.

I agree with this, the Denon's the one to have.

[Todd]

I agree with this, the Denon's the one to have.

I believe that is also the Hatto cycle.

[Mandryka]

I believe that is also the Hatto cycle.

Indeed, that's how I got to know it. You know, I've got a lot of pleasure from exploring the Hatto recordings.

[Mandryka]

:

http://www.youtube.com/v/XJYIcQtVdDs

I don't think it exists on CD... Thanks to the great incontrario motu we can hear it

What a distinctive and interesting performance. Thanks.

[Old Listener]

Indeed, that's how I got to know it. You know, I've got a lot of pleasure from exploring the Hatto recordings.

the saga was endlessly entertaining.

[Mandryka]

Here's the complete Virsaladze concert

http://files.mail.ru/28CD145BE5B0426BA160B8A0999AE9CF

Tchaikovsky Concert Hall,Moscow,  Live, 18.09.2013
Eliso Virsaladze recital

1. Mozart - 9 Variations in C major on the arietta "Lison dormait" from the opera "Julie" by Nicolas Dezède (Fr.), K 264
2. Chopin - Nocturne in E-flat major, Op.55 No. 2
3. Mozart - Piano Sonata No. 4 in E-flat, K.282
4. Chopin - Ballade No. 3 in A-flat major, Op. 47
5. Chopin - Scherzo No. 1 in B minor, Op. 20
6. Mozart - Piano Sonata No. 5 in G, K.283
7. Chopin - Nocturne in E minor, Op. posth. 72 No. 1
8. Mozart - Piano Sonata No. 12 in F, K.332
9. Chopin - Nocturne in C-sharp minor, Op. 27 No. 1
10. Chopin - Nocturne Nocturne in D-flat major, Op. 27 No. 2
11. Chopin - Scherzo No. 3 in C-sharp minor, Op. 39
12. Encore - Mozart
13. Encore - Chopin

[Cosi bel do]

I agree with this, the Denon's the one to have.

Yes I've heard such things already, I'll consider both of them I guess.

Here's the complete Virsaladze concert

Wow... Greaaaat !

[Cosi bel do]

K.283 is again well served : Kraus great as always, Richter in concert in Salzburg too... Then again, there are few unsatisfying versions. Except these two, Ranki also gives an incredible live performance, I might even prefer it to both Kraus and Richter. I also found that it was slightly more perfectly rendered than K.282. Very slightly though, that might be me (or that might be because K.282 was played at the very beginning of the concert).
Virsaladze (2013, live) comes just behind, not because of the very few technical hitches, but mainly because her vision is really close to Richter's who did just a few more subtle inflections (in the second movement).

K.284 is really the weaker of the 5 first sonatas (and everytime I just forget it). The Theme and Variations drags and drags and seems never to finish. Everytime there's a point where I lose interest. That might be why there are so few performances apart from full cycles. Really, does anyone here like this sonata ?
For this reason, it is hard to define a good version. Even Kraus seemed missing something at some point, I mean, when she starts each variation as if it was a whole new beginning, it's great, just when it's the 12th variation and this theme really starts to get on your nerves, and she plays as a genius idea a variation that is in fact quite trivial, it is truly not the best place to demonstrate her wonderful sense of invention. For this reason also, the one interpretation that made this sonata really interesting has to be my favourite. And it's Daniel Barenboim's : he openly treats this last movement as a childish game and nothing more, that keeps starting again, and it is very effective. Eschenbach is not bad either, also refusing too deep or subtle feelings here (but, as always, he sounds more artificial too).

Updated list of favourites :

1 (K.279): Lili Kraus (1954), Daniel Barenboim (1984-1985)
2 (K.280): Lili Kraus (1954), Clara Haskil (1961)
3 (K.281): Lili Kraus (1954), Emil Gilels (1970), Daniel Barenboim (1984-1985)
4 (K.282): Samuil Feinberg (1953), Lili Kraus (1954), Sviatoslav Richter (1989, live), Andreas Staier (2003), Elisso Virsaladze (2013)
5 (K.283): Lili Kraus (1954), Sviatoslav Richter (1966, live), Dezső Ránki (1997, live)
6 (K.284): Daniel Barenboim (1984-1985)

[Mandryka]

I also had difficulties with the big set of variations on modern piano,  I enjoyed Kraus's first recording more than you I think, but still it's not totally satisfying (can I check - you're listening to Kraus's first set aren't you? )

The one I liked most on modern piano, by far, was Ranki's studio performance on his incomplete cycle for Hungaroton.

But this music really takes off on authentic instruments - Schoonderwoerd's performance of 294/iii on a reproduction tangent piano convinced me of that. I think what he does is a good argument for not playing early Mozart on a Steinway.

I can't recall if I've ever listened to Barenboim's.

[Cosi bel do]

I also had difficulties with the big set of variations on modern piano,  I enjoyed Kraus's first recording more than you I think, but still it's not totally satisfying (can I check - you're listening to Kraus's first set aren't you? )

The one I liked most on modern piano, by far, was Ranki's studio performance on his incomplete cycle for Hungaroton.

But this music really takes off on authentic instruments - Schoonderwoerd's performance of 294/iii on a reproduction tangent piano convinced me of that. I think what he does is a good argument for not playing early Mozart on a Steinway.

I can't recall if I've ever listened to Barenboim's.

Yes I guess it will sound really better on fortepiano. I'll see that (I'll even try Schoonderwoerd, even if I'm quite convinced the guy can't play anything properly).

Ranki's cyycle wasn't incomplete, it was shared with Kocsis (then illogically released as an incomplete cycle on CD). A shame it's impossible to find it, but I'll keep looking.

[Florestan]

I like Durnitz, actually. Have heard only Haebler and Arrau, though (they are both on Youtube). Will check Barenboim. Also on Youtube there is Christoph Eschenbach.

[Cosi bel do]

I've found a way to listen to Ranki & Kocsis cycle, I think I'll listen to them also with the others of this first round of comparison.

[Mandryka]

Oh yes, I really didn't know about those Kocsis Mozart sonatas - so there's something for me to explore. Schoonderwoerd's piano playing is something which has grown on me - I certainly used to disllike it a lot (though I always liked the orchestration in the recordings of Beethoven concertos.)

I think it's worth saying that the tangent piano (NOT a fortepiano) which Schoonderwoerd uses, is really very good for Mozart sonatas. As is ine of his fortepianos - the one with hammers which aren't covered with leather.

[Holden]

So there are obviously two cycles by Kraus. When were they recorded and which is the better?

[Mandryka]

So there are obviously two cycles by Kraus. When were they recorded and which is the better?

In the variations of 284 she's better in the first recording. For dates etc see her discography

http://fischer.hosting.paran.com/music/Kraus/discography-kraus.htm

[George]

So there are obviously two cycles by Kraus. When were they recorded and which is the better?

The first cycle is better. By far, the best mastering of it is in the new Erato set.

[Wakefield]

Yes I guess it will sound really better on fortepiano. I'll see that (I'll even try Schoonderwoerd, even if I'm quite convinced the guy can't play anything properly).

[About Schoonderwoerd]

I think his Mozart is excellent, one of his best achievements so far.