Mozart piano sonatas

Started by Mark, September 20, 2007, 05:16:34 AM

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Mandryka

#560
Quote from: (: premont :) on November 08, 2014, 06:40:58 AM
Since Cosi bel do doesn´t seem to have listened to Würtz during this session, I have listened to her set this week. Her version is the straightforward, heavy-handed, unrefined and ultimately completely uninteresting kind like Brautigam´s  and Eschenbach´s, both of whom I have parted with already.

Interesting to see your words about Pommier. I own his set and find it sympathetic, but I never thought of it as being heroic.

Just 310. I don't have the set, just through spotify access to three sonatas. I'm wondering whether to buy the set. I can see online reviews from Gramophone which say it's very variable.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Wakefield

Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2014, 07:16:02 AM
Just 310. I don't have the set, just through spotify access to three sonatas. I'm wondering whether to buy the set. I can see online reviews from Gramophone which say it's very variable.

There is so much modern piano in the last messages that I will copy a link to my favorite K. 310 (1st movement), just for the sake of variety:  :P ;D

http://youtu.be/7sZbxBprEFY

:)
"One of the greatest misfortunes of honest people is that they are cowards. They complain, keep quiet, dine and forget."
-- Voltaire

Mandryka

Quote from: Gordo on November 08, 2014, 07:25:03 AM
There is so much modern piano in the last messages that I will copy a link to my favorite K. 310 (1st movement), just for the sake of variety:  :P ;D

http://youtu.be/7sZbxBprEFY

:)

I agree it's outstanding. I played it this morning in fact. And I have a real soft spot for Schoonderwoert's leatherless hammers. Badura-Skoda (Astrée) is also very good in 310, very different from either Schoonderwoerd or Lubimov.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Wakefield

Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2014, 07:26:27 AM
I agree it's outstanding. I played it this morning in fact. And I have a real soft spot for Schoonderwoert's leatherless hammers. Badura-Skoda (Astrée) is also very good in 310, very different from either Schoonderwoerd or Lubimov.

Full agreement. All of them are excellent and very different.  :)
"One of the greatest misfortunes of honest people is that they are cowards. They complain, keep quiet, dine and forget."
-- Voltaire

Wakefield

Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2014, 07:26:27 AM
I agree it's outstanding. I played it this morning in fact. And I have a real soft spot for Schoonderwoert's leatherless hammers. Badura-Skoda (Astrée) is also very good in 310, very different from either Schoonderwoerd or Lubimov.

BTW, I listened to your link to Pommier's K. 310 and it's very good, but I clearly prefer Lubimov and Badura-Skoda, and also Brendel (Vox), who delivers a superbly high-spirited and free-wheeling performance.
"One of the greatest misfortunes of honest people is that they are cowards. They complain, keep quiet, dine and forget."
-- Voltaire

Florestan

Quote from: Mandryka on November 07, 2014, 09:28:05 PM
For 310, the one I've enjoyed most is Arrau, preferably the final recording, which is full of old man's wisdom. But he played 310 all his life and there are lots of powerful performances from earlier on, not least the live one from Tanglewood. .
Which ones do you prefer? The earlier, more poised, ot the latter, more romanticized? They can´t be more different...
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

premont

Quote from: Todd on November 08, 2014, 06:55:50 AM


I haven't heard Brautigam, but I have listened to Eschenbach, and unrefined is not a word I would use to describe his playing.  I can understand why people might not like it, but his pianistic talent seems rather more significant than the other two mentioned here.

I agree, that Eschenbach is a better pianist than the two others, but I find him unrefined in a musical sense.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Mandryka

Quote from: Florestan on November 08, 2014, 08:16:05 AM
Which ones do you prefer? The earlier, more poised, ot the latter, more romanticized? They can´t be more different...

Both are strong - I enjoy hearing the final one. What do you think of Sokolov with it in 2012?  (just discovered by me)

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZKs1WpMJ0X8
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Old Listener

i've had the vanguard  brendel recording of 310 for decades and stiil like it.  probably what i listen to most often.

Florestan

Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2014, 08:50:32 AM
Both are strong - I enjoy hearing the final one. What do you think of Sokolov with it in 2012?  (just discovered by me)

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZKs1WpMJ0X8

The beginning sounds promising. I will listen to the whole thing when I´ll get home, the sound through laptop´s speakers is less than ideal.  :)
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Holden

It is the lack of refinement which makes Wurtz's cycle so appealing to me. None of this prissy, delicate salon room pretension so favoured by many pianists. It's earthy, almost primal and so unpretentious that it offers a view of these works that many have never considered.

Any thoughts on the Zacharias traversal?
Cheers

Holden

Todd

Quote from: Holden on November 08, 2014, 10:43:01 AMAny thoughts on the Zacharias traversal?


Aside from the colossally bad ending to K331, I find it most enjoyable.  It is a bit superficial and self-indulgent at times, but it is never heavy, and Zacharias' pianistic skill can be enjoyable just to hear what he does next.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

George

Quote from: Todd on November 08, 2014, 10:51:37 AM

Aside from the colossally bad ending to K331, I find it most enjoyable.  It is a bit superficial and self-indulgent at times, but it is never heavy, and Zacharias' pianistic skill can be enjoyable just to hear what he does next.

How do you like his Schubert?
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Todd

Quote from: George on November 08, 2014, 11:12:42 AMHow do you like his Schubert?



Even more than his Mozart, whether EMI or the sole recording on MDG. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Cosi bel do

Quote from: (: premont :) on November 08, 2014, 06:40:58 AM
Since Cosi bel do doesn´t seem to have listened to Würtz during this session, I have listened to her set this week. Her version is the straightforward, heavy-handed, unrefined and ultimately completely uninteresting kind like Brautigam´s  and Eschenbach´s, both of whom I have parted with already.

Interesting to see your words about Pommier. I own his set and find it sympathetic, but I never thought of it as being heroic.

I am listening to Würtz ! It is indeed competing with Gould for the title of the worst cycle available. For very different reasons. Eschenbach is really better than Würtz so far.

The complete sets I'm listening during this comparison are :
- Lili Kraus 1954
- Gould
- Eschenbach
- Pires 1974
- Kocsis & Ranki
- Barenboim
- Uchida
- Würtz
+ as many isolated versions I can find

I'll listen to the sonatas a second time after that, with the other sets I have (or will have found then).

George

Quote from: Todd on November 08, 2014, 11:35:51 AM


Even more than his Mozart, whether EMI or the sole recording on MDG.

Thanks
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

king ubu

Quite surprised to read anything positive on Eschenbach - whatever I've heard (mostly him conducting though) has me considering him a supreme bore.

Got my first earful of Kraus last night - and found it most impressive!
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Cosi bel do

#577
Quote from: king ubu on November 08, 2014, 11:59:46 AM
Quite surprised to read anything positive on Eschenbach - whatever I've heard (mostly him conducting though) has me considering him a supreme bore.

Eschenbach is one of the biggest charlatan as a conductor. But he was (and still is) a good pianist, even if more as an accompanist than as a soloist and his early recordings for DG are not bad at all. I'd say the main issue is how artificial it sounds, as much because of the playing as because of the recording itself.

Cosi bel do

The more I hear this sonata K.310, the more I like it. And it would be a perfect subject for a blind comparison.

Thanks to your many suggestions I listened to 19 versions. Most of them very enjoyable, but I have only one version to add to the 4 "best" ones I already cited yesterday (Lipatti 1950 studio + live, Gilels 1971 live in Ossiach, Richter 1989 live in London)... And it is Lubimov. I will not listen to the rest of his cycle before I finish the sonatas and start over, because I know I like it too much, but it was very pleasing to listen to it before jumping to sonata K.311. By the way, it's astonishing how it sounds at times like Gilels playing the fortepiano. It's not the first time similarities between the two Neuhaus students really catch my ear.
Among the versions that have been cited, Schnabel is of course very nice but lacking a certain tension and spirit very particular to Mozart (but I might change my mind when I listen to it again as it remains magically articulated). Pommier is neat and straightforward, not bad at all, despite a few mannerisms, and a lack of dynamic variety, leading to a very unambiguous reading. I already said how much I like the Ranki version, that I put just slightly behind my very favourites (but I could very happily live with it only if I had to), just as for Kraus and Barenboim. Also among these "4 stars and a half" versions, I count the live version by Sokolov in 2012 (very annoying that we don't get to know which performance this is), incredibly detailed but never mechanical or too demonstrative.
I'll listen to Arrau with the other cycles I keep for later.

And now the lesser recorded K.311 should not take as much time.

Moonfish

Cosi,

I love how you are dissecting these sonatas and are making a path in the maze of the available renditions! Besides, it makes great reading!   :)

Bravo!

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