Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 388939 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1380 on: December 31, 2020, 10:27:12 AM »
I posted some initial thoughts on the 1998 version:

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3533.msg424231.html#msg424231

Haha

So I spent some time listening to CD80. The switch of moments does indeed change the overall flow of the piece. I'm not a fan of moment I(k) at all,

I've just listened to I(k) and I couldn't agree more -- I(m)/DK(2)/DK(d)2 later or tomorrow!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 10:55:06 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1381 on: January 01, 2021, 02:24:01 PM »
I just ordered Maconie’s Other Planets, and found a review on Jstor by Christopher Fox where he cites something Maconie says - and it has greatly helped me enjoy the 1998 Momente - Maconie talks about Momente as exemplifying the tenderness and affection of a loving relationship between equal partners. Though I’ve heard Momente many times before I don’t think I’d ever seen the text until today.


Anyway I like the 1998 more than the 1972, I have a very positive memory of the 1965.

Also listened with great pleasure to Weltparlament from Mittwoch aus Licht. The Licht operas have high and low points I think, but the high points are summits.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 08:23:13 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1382 on: January 17, 2021, 04:29:45 AM »
What is the connection between Klavierstuck XII on this CD



which is listed as Examen von Donnerstag aus Licht here and on spotify


https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8117432--light-stockhausen-scriabin

Act 1 Scenes 2 and 3 from Donnerstag aus Licht, also known as Examen I and II, on this CD




?







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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1383 on: January 17, 2021, 04:51:44 AM »
What is the connection between the Klavierstuck 8 played by Bewrnard Wambach here



The Klavierstuck 8 here



And Luzifers Traum here




?
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1384 on: January 17, 2021, 04:55:02 AM »
HAs anyone explored the  Bernhard Wambach Stockhausen CDs?
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1385 on: January 17, 2021, 10:51:04 AM »
Examen in Donnerstag was adapted for piano as Klavierstück XII. Luzifers Traum in Samstag was adapted from Klavierstück XIII; no relation to VIII as far as I recall. XIV similarly originated a scene in Montag.

Licht has numerous such alternate versions of its constituent pieces.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1386 on: January 17, 2021, 10:55:15 AM »
HAs anyone explored the  Bernhard Wambach Stockhausen CDs?

Yes. I find the Wambach recordings less engaging and less intricate as Kontarsky's. I have yet to dig into Corver for XII-XIV, so I have nothing to compare Wambach against.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1387 on: January 17, 2021, 08:48:22 PM »
Yes. I find the Wambach recordings less engaging and less intricate as Kontarsky's. I have yet to dig into Corver for XII-XIV, so I have nothing to compare Wambach against.

Well I’ve heard Wambach 1 and 3 and I don’t feel negative (can you share 2 and 4 with me?) I tend to prefer the music taken more slowly, with less emphasis on fireworks. It’s a long time since I heard Kontarsky, I vaguely remember sound problems, a hard piano sound, closely miked. The one that I’ve started to enjoy is Liebner - at least in the later Klavierstücke. Liebner has a lovely tone, it is « piano beautiful » (the piano analogue of « voice beautiful » à la Richard Burton in Shakespeare performance.) I’d forgotten about the Stockhausen Verlag Corver disc.

Liebner takes 40 minutes for each of Klavierstück 6 and 10.  Lyrical, full of colour, poetic. This is a radical interpretation!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:34:19 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1388 on: January 18, 2021, 01:18:27 AM »
Examen in Donnerstag was adapted for piano as Klavierstück XII. Luzifers Traum in Samstag was adapted from Klavierstück XIII; no relation to VIII as far as I recall. XIV similarly originated a scene in Montag.



Do you have a book which explains this? Other Planets maybe? (I have it on order, the second edition.)

(Added: ah - just discovered the excellent wiki page!)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:50:26 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1389 on: January 18, 2021, 01:42:55 AM »
One question I have about the klavierstucke. In, for example, 7 and 10 - can people hear any structure? I can see from wiki that these pieces are very “composed”. But subjectively in these piano pieces the pitches and durations seem as almost as random as The Music of Changes to me.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 03:52:59 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1390 on: January 18, 2021, 07:42:17 AM »
Well I’ve heard Wambach 1 and 3 and I don’t feel negative (can you share 2 and 4 with me?)

I don't have Wambach. What won me over in Kontarsky was exactly the close piano sound, as opposed to the more diffuse and distant Wambach.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1391 on: January 18, 2021, 07:46:19 AM »
Do you have a book which explains this? Other Planets maybe? (I have it on order, the second edition.)

The lineage is also presented here, and note the fractional and "ex" opus numbers:

http://www.karlheinzstockhausen.org/complete_list_of_works_english.htm

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Offline Mandryka

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1393 on: January 26, 2021, 05:45:11 AM »


How could I have let this masterpiece pass me by until today? Bowled over.
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Offline Cato

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1394 on: January 26, 2021, 04:11:38 PM »


How could I have let this masterpiece pass me by until today? Bowled over.




Stockhausen
said that the elements of the work appeared in a dream:check the notes here at YouTube:


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/s9lUZR6_N1w" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/s9lUZR6_N1w</a>
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1395 on: January 26, 2021, 07:25:38 PM »
Thanks, gents. It's genuinely nice to be interested in a Stockhausen work, though I doubt it will become a habit.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1396 on: January 26, 2021, 10:53:24 PM »
Thanks, gents. It's genuinely nice to be interested in a Stockhausen work, though I doubt it will become a habit.

I think it’s true that his reputation has declined, you can see that by the number of books about him. Maconie and not much else.

But why?



Stockhausen
said that the elements of the work appeared in a dream:check the notes here at YouTube:




 I think there’s something which Stockhausen shares with Boulez sometimes, controlled delirium. Trans is a case in point.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 11:47:44 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1397 on: January 26, 2021, 11:40:23 PM »


Just ordered this. Has anyone read it?
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1398 on: January 27, 2021, 06:34:45 AM »
I think it’s true that his reputation has declined, you can see that by the number of books about him. Maconie and not much else.

But why?

He started out strong, with his face in the Sgt Pepper crowd 8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline CRCulver

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #1399 on: January 27, 2021, 11:40:09 AM »
I think it’s true that his reputation has declined, you can see that by the number of books about him. Maconie and not much else.

But why?


Because 1) he went bonkers in the mid-late 1970s, and 2) he bought the rights to his recordings back and made them available only through a boutique mail-order label that didn’t even have an internet presence for a long time. His increasing eccentricity alienated many who would have written about him, and the average person was unable to hear all those pieces which, at one point, might have destined for modern classic status.

I have no doubt that had it not been for those two things, Stockhausen would be better remembered in classical music circles. And not only – I think he would have remained a concern of the popular music press looking back, alongside e.g. Brian Eno.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 12:02:27 PM by CRCulver »